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Old No.3 Cincinnati mill?

8D-132

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Location
Grants Pass, OR.USA
I am need of a little help. I am going this weekend to look at a line shaft driven Cincinnati No.3 vertical mill I have not seen it yet. I am told it has a 50 taper. What other tapers could it have and how do you identify those? What are the weak points of this mill? I am told it weighs around 7000lbs.?
I am hoping this will make a nice companion for my No. 4 LeBlond horizontal mill.
 
line shaft driven Cincinnati No.3 vertical mill
Hi Ryan: :)

Unlikely #50 unless altered by someone.

Cincinnati originated the flanged and keyed spindle, but made them with #12 and #14 B&S tapers as early as the early twenties.

By line shaft drive do you mean single big pulley for flat belt?

A #3 vertical in the '23 catalog weighed 6300 and looked like the scan.
 

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  • Old Cinc 3 VertSM.jpg
    Old Cinc 3 VertSM.jpg
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John, That is probably the animal. Is there a quick way to figure if it is a 12 or 14 B&S taper? How hard will holders in those tapers be to acquire? Sorry about my terminology yes I meant flat belt driven, Most of the old timers here always referred to a flat belt machine as a "line shaft machine". That probably has different meaning other places? I will take a few pictures and hope that it is decent enough to purchase.
As always John, Thank you for your help.
 
Flat belt driven and line shaft driven mean the same thing, more or less. I think John was asking if it's driven by one single flat pulley and has a geared spindle transmission, or if it's older, with a three or four step cone pulley on the spindle and (probably) only one back gear speed.
B&S 12 and 14 is not the most common stuff in the world. If I were you I would hold out for something with a 50 taper unless this one comes with a lot of tooling and/or is in really nice condition.
Andy
 
Hey Ryan - you are welcome:

"mouth" dimensions (I.E. big end of taper):

12 B&S would be 1.797 ID very shallow taper .49973 per foot on dia.
14 B&S would be 2.344 ID very shallow taper .50000 per foot on dia.
50 NMTB would be 2.750 ID steep taper 3.500 per foot on dia.

I have owned a very few pieces of #12 stuff, but have only seen one item of #14 - which is a little odd, as most all the Cincinnati mills had this taper from about 1920 to 1932

I altered two of these old spindles to #50, a 14 from my 1919 #4 High Power vertical and a 12 from my much older #4 High Power horizontal. Involved opening up draw bar hole too. The old spindles were not especially hard, but you could tell they went to some lengths to get them TOUGH.

Any such machine Ryan, will have plain bearings - the front one tapered similar to old Hendey lathes.
 
John, thank you for the taper dimensions and the heads up about the bearings.
I will go take a look and see what goes with it and what taper it is. Andy If this machine is worn out I will not go through heroics to save it. But if it looks like it has some life left, I will see about giving it a new home.
I will take pictures ether way.
 
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Well I went out and took a look and it will stay where it is. If it were just one or a couple things wrong it would not have been so bad. But it was very very well worn and missing parts that owner had bypassed. It is a No.12 B&S taper. The number is 1083E Y There was a number stamped down in the T slots that was 12-12.
Thank You John and Andy for answering my post.



100_2478.jpg
 
I would say leave it there as well. You can get a newer one in nicer shape for next to nothing, and it will have a 50 taper and power/rapid on all axes.
Andy
 
The company I work for is having a Retirement (going-out-of-business) Sale after 38 years and liquidating their entire machine shop. Lots of SOLID equipment with plenty of life still left in them including this BEAST of a Cincinatti (Lot # 93); they don't make them like this anymore! Know anyone with a need or room to give them a second lease on life? Someone please save it from going to the scrap-yard!
Cinci No3.jpg
CINCINATTI MILLING MACHINE VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL HEAD NO. 3 SER. ZA3PIZ-76 You must use our Rig
 
To quote myself 12 years back:

Cincinnati originated the flanged and keyed spindle, but made them with #12 and #14 B&S tapers as early as the early twenties.

This is just plain wrong. :D

K&T patented the flanged and face keyed spindle nose in 1913

KT Patent Spindle Nose.jpg
 








 
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