questions on my newly acquired KT 2H
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  1. #1
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    Default questions on my newly acquired KT 2H

    Being a self taught home machinist, I am learning all the time, but when I get stumped, I turn to the greatest machinist forum out there!!!
    Recently acquired a 2H plain for my home shop. Serial 3265 It unfortunately didn't come with much...a B style arbor support and a 1 1/4" arbor. No vertical head or tooling. I have got it all cleaned up, running and checked out. Everything works great, and the ways look decent. Haven't DI'd it yet though. The one big issue I have found is this: The splined table feed shaft on the rear side of the cross feed bracket is missing the telescoping tube and where the shaft enters near the column there is a LOT of play...in the parts manual, the only thing I have figured out is the telescoping tube shown in fig 16 and is listed as number 54 (2H-M54)
    Then I am lost...I can't find for sure the splined shaft, or what it is it is mounting into near the column. Can someone please point me to the breakdown and part or parts (bushing I assume) that is allowing this play. And is there any chance of getting replacement tube and I assume bushing for the play?

    Next, I purchased a used cat50 1" arbor from a local used industrial supply, but it is pretty much bare. I have spacers on another 1" arbor I had for an old Bristol mill I have, but what I need is the running bushing for the B support on the 2H. Where can I find one, or can I just make one? I can make one of 1018 stock I have, and broach, or do I need a better material? How tight of tolerance is required for the bushing? I think the one on the 1 1/4 that came with the mill measured 2.100"...but that was just a quick check with a caliper...haven't miked it yet. It also looks like it may be case hardened...so if I make one is this necessary?

    I am sure I will have more questions as I get deeper into it...

    Really appreciate any help and guidance. I am looking forward to making some chips with this!!

    Charles

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    Charles
    The telescoping tube is for coolant returning to the base.the splined shaft is for the rapid traverse clutch I believe? I wonder if a tapered pin is worn?
    Cheers
    Martin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Reece View Post
    Charles
    The telescoping tube is for coolant returning to the base.the splined shaft is for the rapid traverse clutch I believe? I wonder if a tapered pin is worn?
    Cheers
    Martin
    Martin,
    Thanks for the reply, however the coolant return is not the one I am referring to...the one I am referring to runs horizontally, and covers a splined shaft that runs thru the cross feed bracket...it is outboard of the crossfeed screw. The front section of the shaft, between the crossfeed bracket and the front of the mill, is intact...it is just the rear tube that is missing. These tubes are just a chipguard. The splined shaft for the RT is inside the knee casing best I can tell by the parts diagram/manual. This shaft, as well as the crossfeed screw, is external to the main knee housing. I will try and post pictures in the next couple of days.

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    Hi
    Any chance you have a picture?
    Cheers
    Martin

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    Chucky,
    congrats on the new mill. K&T made some fine tools and fun to work on.
    I had a 2H that I ran for a while. I ended up scraping it out. In the process I was able to take it apart and learn some things. I still have some of the assemblies lying around the shop.

    I think the short answer is that you will have a hard time finding any parts for this machine. Someone may be parting out a machine here or there is your best bet. There was a place in Northwest Ohio that had a lot of parts for these machines but last I heard they were going out of biz.

    You can however find drawings and dimensions for the parts you need to make from folks here. I still have the saddle assembly from my 2H plain. If indeed you need a part I could try and help.

    My guess is that you are just fine with this situation. I recall there being some play in the bushing where the splined rapid shaft goes through on all the axis in fact on this machine. Do you have a parts breakdown schematic of this mill?

    happy hunting and have fun with the 2H

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    Parts N Parts in Elida, OH has parts but get ready to mortgage your home for them.. Don't ask me how I know this... Ramsay 1

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    Whatever happened to Chuck Carter of Milling Parts, aka Magneco ?
    His website is down.

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    Default 2H Telescopic Tube

    Is this the telescopic tube which you are referring to? Please pardon the mess as I have been down with terrible back and leg problems ...tube.jpg

    Cheers: Ramsay 1

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    Ramsey...yes!! That is the tube I am missing!!
    Sorry you have been having some health problems...that's never fun!

    So I have investigated further, and it seems that the splined shaft runs in four bearings...a ball bearing and bushing in the front, and two bushings (the parts book refers to them as a bearing) that is in the crossfeed bracket, supporting the table feed sliding bevel gear. Numbers 55 and 57.
    cross-feed-bracket.jpg

    There is no bushing at the rear of the shaft at the rear of the knee...ie, far end of the telescoping tube, as I first assumed. So there is quite a bit of slop in the shaft, obviously worse the further the saddle is from the column.

    And to Vonblowseph also...

    Would you happen to have any of these parts? The two "bushings" at the crossfeed bracket, and the telescoping tube? If necessary, I can probably fabricate bushings if I can get the old ones out. Which leads to my next question...

    How do I remove the shaft? I ran across another discussion on a 2HL, and they mentioned the shaft on the 2HL pulls out with a slidehammer... Here is shaft from parts book for 2H...#38

    splined-shaft.jpg

    I pulled the front cover plate off, and the ball bearing and end of shaft is all that is visible. The shaft is threaded! But I need to find out from someone with experience on this before I go whacking a slide hammer on it!! The set screw #43 appears to lock the bearing (bushing) #42 to the shaft. Not sure how I access the set screw... If I can pull the shaft out far enough to clear the crossfeed bracket, I shouldn't have to pull it completely out. Seems if it pulled completely out, the drive gear, and bearing #42 would fall free!
    Anyway, appreciate any help and advice you guys can offer
    knee-housing.jpg

    cross-feed-bracket.jpg
    Charles

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    Charles: I hope you can find the telescopic cover for your machine as much trash will enter parts without this cover.. If you run soluble coolant, your knee will be flooded for sure....If you haven't already, join KTMilwaukee in Yahoo groups as members there may have a lead on the parts you need....Cheers; Ramsay 1

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    Could you find a piece of corrugated pvc tubing like used on a swimming pool pump and split it down the side to use temporarily until you find one. Like clothing dryer vent tube in a smaller size.
    Measure the outside diameters of the copper telescoping tubes. They may be standard tubing sizes. One size slipping into the next size down. You may have to get the measurements from another member.
    I know that some square tubing is sized so the tube the next size down fit inside the larger size.
    It's always best to have the right part but get it covered.

    Edit: I measured the horizontal telescoping tube on my 3ch. Its 1.6 then 1.5 then 1.4 and 1.25 outside diameter sizes stepping down. I know you have a 2h but it should be similar.

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    Copper tubing - Wikipedia

    I looks like rigid copper does step down in i/8 inch sizes on nominal and 1/8 inch wall. I'll bet you could make it. Attaching the ends would be the trick.

    Copper tubing - Wikipedia

    Edit: In the sizes you need they step 1/4inch at a time so you would need an 1/8 thick bushing on each end.

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    Thanks all for the suggestions and responses...I can fabricate a cover of some sorts to replace the tube if I can't find one...and your suggestions provide great options to do so...however, my bigger concern is getting access! Without the ability to remove, or at least retract the shaft out of the crossfeed bearing box, I can't really do anything except temporary. The shaft end protrudes into the saddle casting at the far end, so no way to slide ANY kind of cover around the shaft, unless it is split somehow and reassembled. But I really need access to the bearing box to fix the slop. Unfortunately, I have thought about this a great deal, and now I am thinking that the wear may not be in the bearings supporting the bevel gear, but in the actual bevel gear splined hole itself. The table feed works fine...indicating no issues with bevel gear engagement. And the missing shaft cover allowed lots of chips onto the splines, and not necessarily into the bearing surfaces. Of course, I am guessing at this point. It could be the chicken and egg argument...maybe the shaft bushing wore down to the point that the shaft dug into and destroyed the telescoping tube!

    Thank you for measuring the tube! That will help if I end up fabricating!

    Does anyone have any info on removing the splined shaft? Or can you guide me to someone who has possibly experienced pulling this out on the 2H?

    I will also look into the yahoo group...

    I don't plan on soluble flood coolant, but if I decide to use flood will only use oil on this machine.

    Charles

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    Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
    I didn't look all the way through the publications on vintage machinery.org but I would think there is something in one of the manuals. Look at some of the other horizontal mills if you dont see yours listed. The method of extracting the shaft may be the same on other model H model mills. I dont know. I dont know if you knew about the vintage machinery website. It's a lot of people that have downloaded information in one place for everyone to use. Its appreciated by all in need of information.

    Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - Model 3CH, 4CH Milling Machines - Parts Manual | VintageMachinery.org

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    Here is a couple of beat up parts machines going cheap so far.

    Milwaukee Lathe - govdeals.com

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    Randy, is this Govdeal site legit? I registered in order to bid and they said they need a copy of my DL and a utility bill. Whatever for? Also, if I purchase one of these, it's a 745 mile drive...I have trailer to haul, but am looking for ideas how to load...they won't load it.

    Now for the news on the mill...GOT the shaft out no problem! It pulled easily with a slide hammer and the drive gear stays put! I was also able to pull the bevel gear and bushing out of the crossfeed bracket box, and while the gear teeth are pretty beat up, they should last for the limited hours I'll put on this machine. The bearings (bushings) are pretty shot though. I can fabricate new bushings and get that part fixed. Still looking for a decent telescoping tube (found one at Parts n Parts, but they DID want me to refinance my house! lol
    If I absolutely had to, could probably fabricate but...very very time consuming and I am a bit limited on extra free time right now...prefer to purchase a used one.

    Next...with the bushing wear, I am gonna guess that there is a lubrication problem? I assume a clogged line or passage. Also am assuming I will need to remove the table to trace it down. Anyone know about the lubrication to the crossfeed box and how to check/clean it out?
    Charles

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    It's probably their attempt to see that you are a responsible acceptable bidder. They get lame bidders that for whatever reason bid and dont follow through with the purchase. They have your information to pursue legal action if you dont follow through with the purchase.
    A good sized tow truck may be able to load it. Its heavy.
    That's where your costs will rise.

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    [QUOTE=Chucky55;3311066]Randy, is this Govdeal site legit? I registered in order to bid and they said they need a copy of my DL and a utility bill. Whatever for? Also, if I purchase one of these, it's a 745 mile drive...I have trailer to haul, but am looking for ideas how to load...they won't load it.

    I didn't like the idea either, showing my license, but she said black out your number. All they want to see is your full legal name and your address.
    If you can get it cheap enough, hire a local boom truck to lift it onto your trailer. Of the two machines, the one with the vert. head, seems to be fatally wounded when they smashed to door off. Looks like the main casting is busted.

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    Randy,
    Thanks for the info. Sent them the documents.
    I was thinking if I bid that maybe the busted up one would suit me better. I am looking for a vertical head anyway, and that way I wouldn't be tempted to restore yet another machine!! LOL
    That said, do you thing my 7000# axle trailer would be able to haul BOTH machines??? Looking at a long haul and quite a bit of costs...but maybe wise to invest in both machines?

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    I don't have the weight of a 2H handy, but believe that your looking at 3500 to 4000 pounds per machine. You would be pushing it to carry both, unless you can remove some pieces you don't want.


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