Saved from the scrapper K&T 2HL vertical - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    So, its alive!

    Flushed all the gearboxes with kerosene. Got a leak from the rapid clutch adjustment cover, and the air vent above the pulley cover. Got to get a bigger flathead to check in there, screws are tight as heck.

    Thought something was broken when spindle wouldn't turn, but it was the spindle reverse knob just barely not seated all the way. Lots of water in spindle sump still, might need to drain and refill a few times.

    The rapid movements work fine for raising an lowering the table, and table in and out. Will grind 1 out of 10 times. Move it some or go the other direction and it is fine. Now rapid for the table left and right, grinds bad. Maybe just a clutch adjustment? It is rather hard to crank the table side to side by hand. Everything feeds fine using the normal feeds.

    It is quieter than the pacemaker. Haven't made a single chip yet but so far I like it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Lots of history there. K&T patented both the face keyed / flanged spindle nose AND the double round over arms in the early teens - forcing folks like Cincinnati and B&S to pay them royalties for years and years. In other words, the face keyed spindle was in use for years before the steep tapers were included by the National Machine Tool Builders Association (a standards outfit). My 1928 B&S catalog is the oldest I have showing this advancement. We have to assume that B&S paid K&T royalties for double round over arms prior to this.

    Attachment 325398

    The 1918 B&S #2 with the drive slots and tapered O.D.
    brown-sharpe-2-universal-mill-4.jpgbrown-sharpe-2-universal-mill-3.jpg
    From B&S regarding the tapered spindle nose.
    b-s-taper-nose-spindle.jpgscan-1.jpgscan-2.jpg
    John

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  4. #23
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    Grinding on the rapids is probably from a worn safety clutch, clutch balls and springs, etc.. Keith Rucker on Youtube did a video about a 2h horizontal some time back where he removed said clutch for repairs....Cheers; Ramsay 1

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    Thanks, I will check out his videos.

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    Well running the table back and forth while lubing it worked wonders. Imagine that? Everything runs smooth now and rapid works fine with all movements no grinding. Only real issue now is the drive shaft that sticks out on the right side stays out when the table is moved to the left. Thinking I will need to fab a cover with a bearing in it so it will be retracted along with the table.

    Still lots of water showing up in the spindle sump, drained, flushed, and vacuumed 3 times now. Guess it is just going to be a process.

    There is a pretty good leak around the top cover near the head. Going to pull it and reseal.

    And needs new belts, after a bit of running these are coming apart. D68 is what is stamped on them.

    Otherwise she is good to go, clean the table and find a good set of tool holders and I'll be making chips.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferroequinologis View Post
    Well running the table back and forth while lubing it worked wonders. Imagine that? Everything runs smooth now and rapid works fine with all movements no grinding. Only real issue now is the drive shaft that sticks out on the right side stays out when the table is moved to the left. Thinking I will need to fab a cover with a bearing in it so it will be retracted along with the table.

    Still lots of water showing up in the spindle sump, drained, flushed, and vacuumed 3 times now. Guess it is just going to be a process.

    There is a pretty good leak around the top cover near the head. Going to pull it and reseal.

    And needs new belts, after a bit of running these are coming apart. D68 is what is stamped on them.

    Otherwise she is good to go, clean the table and find a good set of tool holders and I'll be making chips.
    If it's the shaft that's closer to the operator, you should be able to just pull it out and put it on a shelf as it isn't part of the machine's regular operation. The left side should just slip into a socket in the knee and the right side would be held in place by the rest of the accessory power feed gearing. The shaft behind it is the lead screw and looks like everything is there to hold it in place. If it's moving sided to side separate from the table than something is loose. The original cover was just a cap to keep things from getting wrapped up on the end of the shaft.

    I'd recommend pulling the coolant/oil pump out of the sump and cleaning/rebuilding it. If all that gumk was down there when the machine was still in use, than that pump has been running dry trying to suck junk into it. Our 2H's sump was packed with chips and thick cutting oil sludge and the pump barely worked after cleaning. The only way I was able to clean the sump was reaching in with my bare arm to dredge out scoops of the stuff. The sump takes up the whole hollow bottom of the machine, and there's lots of walls and holes down there providing support for everything above. Lot of places for stuff to hide behind. There's a clean out port in the back, but it's by the floor so you'll have to have the machine raised up a few inches to get something under it.

    The worst was I had to go through the same process with a Fosdick drill press in the shop that had a similar in-base coolant sump that was packed with junk. It had an opening on one side for the pump to stick through, which was missing, and in there I found a hamburger wrapper with a congealed mass wrapped inside... It had likely been there long enough for all the bacteria to have moved on, but still nasty.

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    If it's the shaft that's closer to the operator, you should be able to just pull it out and put it on a shelf as it isn't part of the machine's regular operation. The left side should just slip into a socket in the knee and the right side would be held in place by the rest of the accessory power feed gearing. The shaft behind it is the lead screw and looks like everything is there to hold it in place. If it's moving sided to side separate from the table than something is loose. The original cover was just a cap to keep things from getting wrapped up on the end of the shaft.

    I'd recommend pulling the coolant/oil pump out of the sump and cleaning/rebuilding it. If all that gumk was down there when the machine was still in use, than that pump has been running dry trying to suck junk into it. Our 2H's sump was packed with chips and thick cutting oil sludge and the pump barely worked after cleaning. The only way I was able to clean the sump was reaching in with my bare arm to dredge out scoops of the stuff. The sump takes up the whole hollow bottom of the machine, and there's lots of walls and holes down there providing support for everything above. Lot of places for stuff to hide behind. There's a clean out port in the back, but it's by the floor so you'll have to have the machine raised up a few inches to get something under it.

    The worst was I had to go through the same process with a Fosdick drill press in the shop that had a similar in-base coolant sump that was packed with junk. It had an opening on one side for the pump to stick through, which was missing, and in there I found a hamburger wrapper with a congealed mass wrapped inside... It had likely been there long enough for all the bacteria to have moved on, but still nasty.
    Ugh yeah, that would have been nasty. I did disconnect the pump prior to trying to run the machine. Like you said the sump was/is filthy. The plate was missing from the rear when I got it, easy enough to fab up something. I had it outside on a sloped driveway and steam cleaned the machine and the sump before bringing inside. I figured there must be pockets all over in there, would get it super clean on one side, move, then it looked like I hadn't done anything. Rinse and repeat. It still is messy, and I'll probably never get it fully clean. The screens were gone, but I can make some easy enough.

    Got the top cover sealed with a little RTV and no more leaks from there. Still have oil coming from the air vent above the pulleys. Can't get the screws out. Going to go get a 3/8 drive flathead socket bigger than the one I have and try that.

    You're right, that driveshaft was just for the change gears for the table feed. Pulled it out and it runs fine. Will put it on the shelf incase I get lucky enough to find the right gearbox, or someone else needs it.

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  12. #28
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    And needs new belts, after a bit of running these are coming apart. D68 is what is stamped on them
    Maybe B68? A D is a big heavy belt

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Maybe B68? A D is a big heavy belt
    Yes, B68. Ordered 3 Bates this morning.

  15. #30
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    Default Shaft

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferroequinologis View Post
    Ugh yeah, that would have been nasty. I did disconnect the pump prior to trying to run the machine. Like you said the sump was/is filthy. The plate was missing from the rear when I got it, easy enough to fab up something. I had it outside on a sloped driveway and steam cleaned the machine and the sump before bringing inside. I figured there must be pockets all over in there, would get it super clean on one side, move, then it looked like I hadn't done anything. Rinse and repeat. It still is messy, and I'll probably never get it fully clean. The screens were gone, but I can make some easy enough.

    Got the top cover sealed with a little RTV and no more leaks from there. Still have oil coming from the air vent above the pulleys. Can't get the screws out. Going to go get a 3/8 drive flathead socket bigger than the one I have and try that.

    You're right, that driveshaft was just for the change gears for the table feed. Pulled it out and it runs fine. Will put it on the shelf incase I get lucky enough to find the right gearbox, or someone else needs it.
    The shaft you are referring to was probably in place to drive a rotary table bracket...Master parts book calls for 3 "Texrope Belt B-68" for drive belts..

    All three of my K&T mills had what looked like dinosaur carcasses in them from dried up soluble... I now have light bodied cutting oil in all three and have for years.. Cheers; Ramsay 1

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  17. #31
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    Took the top off and sealed it. looks pretty good inside! I wiped everything down before putting the top back on.
    topless.jpggears.jpg

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  19. #32
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    Here is my 1943 K&T H vertical (saved from the scrapper as well). 50 taper. It has a 40 taper adapter that attaches to the spindle nose.

    Sits not far from my raised 16x102" Pacemaker.

    Bill


    img_8999.jpg img_9003.jpg img_9014.jpg img_9019.jpg

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  21. #33
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    Hey Bill,
    I prefer to see your K&T in it's more natural habit.. Slathered in money making blue chips. <grin>
    Stay safe
    Calvin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1-blue-chips.jpg  

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  23. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in PA View Post
    Here is my 1943 K&T H vertical (saved from the scrapper as well). 50 taper. It has a 40 taper adapter that attaches to the spindle nose.
    Nice Bill!

    I am on the hunt for one of those adapters, my drawbar is double threaded already for 50 and 40 taper. I have guys around here with lots of 40 taper I can have, just got to find a reducer/adapter.

  24. #35
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    I like the adapter for my 2h horizontal.. I have both 40 and 50 arbors.. I sometimes use the 40 in my 2h horizontal with 50 spindle because they are so much easier to handle.. Cheers from Louisiana.. Ramsay 1

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    The toolholder that came with it is a Brown and Sharp Number 57, with a Number 7R 5/8 two flute mill. So I can buy some Brown and Sharp #7 taper tools for this holder, correct?

    I took the front spindle access cover off, and that's where all the water was hiding, on top of the gears, and in the flat surfaces etc. Vacuumed it out, and have let it dry for a few days. Going to reseal tonight. Got the leak from the air vent on the pulley side fixed as well. Seems like I just need to get a set of hold downs, and some tooling, and I will be in business.


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