Is there such a thing as a 8' long AKA small foot print US made lathe?
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    Default Is there such a thing as a 8' long AKA small foot print US made lathe?

    The tools are leaving the garage soon. Going into a little 190sq ft room, heavy concrete floor.

    The current lathe is a 1340 Asian, 6' long. 1600 lbs. I came across collectors post on CL for a Pacemaker 1430, and had instant lathe lust. Problem is, it is 12' long and 8000 lbs. Can't fit it and can't move it.

    Is there an older US made lathe that sort of splits the difference footprint wise? I just don't have the room for much bigger, but would love the quality. Anything else I should be looking for?
    Figure 8' long, 4000 lbs, 5 hp more or less, 50-2000 rpm and metric thread capable.


    I don't "need" this, but wondering if there is something out there to keep an eye out for.
    Is this the sort of size more likely to be found in a Japanese lathe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    The tools are leaving the garage soon. Going into a little 190sq ft room, heavy concrete floor.

    The current lathe is a 1340 Asian, 6' long. 1600 lbs. I came across collectors post on CL for a Pacemaker 1430, and had instant lathe lust. Problem is, it is 12' long and 8000 lbs. Can't fit it and can't move it.

    Is there an older US made lathe that sort of splits the difference footprint wise? I just don't have the room for much bigger, but would love the quality. Anything else I should be looking for?
    Figure 8' long, 4000 lbs, 5 hp more or less, 50-2000 rpm and metric thread capable.


    I don't "need" this, but wondering if there is something out there to keep an eye out for.
    Is this the sort of size more likely to be found in a Japanese lathe?
    US-made Sheldon "R" series can be long and low-mass. Also rare as free Cadillacs.
    Otherwise you'll prolly have to adjust yer specifications. Lower RPM for lower mass and ADD metric. Or go to non-US.

    South Korean, Taiwanese, or "former East bloc" more likely found.

    "8000" series Colchester maybe?

    Then there are also OLD Italian, French, Belgian, Dutch, German....Brasilian.... metric or even inch/metric commonly. But? "Projects" usually. Also "orphans", mostly, parts-wise.

    "Japan" went near-as-dammit all CNC a long time ago. Mori-Seiki "all manual" => Wacheon, South Korea. A vintage Mori, you MIGHT find, Pacific coast. The Korean copy you can find more easily most anywhere, and brand-new if you have the funds.

    US Iron is "OLD Iron", seldom metric - yah have to add that - and heavier, so yah have a "project", even you were to find one of the smaller Lodge & Shipley or a "latter years" squarish not rounded, LeBlond "Regal" (they are anything BUT "royalty"..) yah could afford.

    Bed length is one metric. Center-to-center capability is another. So is OVERALL length.

    Which one are you calling "8' long"? If "overall", that don't buy a whole lot of c-to-c daylight, much of anything "modern". If a 13 X 40 has served, how much more do you actually need, work-envelope-wise?

    At only 20" (10EE) or 30" (HBX-360) c-to-c, - a lot LESS than what you have now, I've got the HP and RPM, but also about the same O/A length, and already double the mass of yer 1600 lb'er.

    An old Hendey tie-bar "cone head" has good space efficiency, workspace daylight for overall length, but even ONE thousand RPM is not easy.

    Upgrading your 13X40 can be done, just not by a lot before you are into the space and rigging issue again. Rigging-in a 6,000 or 8,000 lb lathe isn't HARD. It just needs proper skill and care.

    Pacemakers, Axelson, DS&G's f'rinstance, are not famous for having SHORT headstocks. There goeth some of yer space. "Grand Old" lathes in general got to be so recognized because they have deep, wide, heavy beds with wide carriages to spread loads and reduce the rate of wear. A wide-winged carriage uses-up more of the bed per useful tool-tip travel versus a very NARROW carriage that then more rapidly wears . .and rocks or TILTS.

    Compare the overall carriage span of an L&S, Monarch, that ATW Pacemaker, or a Hendey to a Piss-is-on-yah, Matthews.

    Same again a durable and powerful tailstock. Longer ones eat more bed-length budget.

    In general?

    If you want a longer bed AND NOT "spaghetti" flex in it?

    Yah just hafta accept a HEAVIER lathe as part of the deal. And then? Yah need a longer bed than yah thought yah needed, even so!

    Where larger is not possible in available space, one either finds larger space and installs the larger and heavier lathe.

    Or finds some other turner who already has done to deal with the long parts FOR yah.

    That "contract it out" solution has been working well for a VERY long time, already, BTW. See buses, trains, and planes vs shoes, bicycles, and hang gliders..

    "190 square foot room?" How long? What ELSE do you have to put in it?

    Compromises.. Some folk really DO harbour an old cone-head as a supplementary lathe exactly FOR those large-diameter or overly long tasks.. and just accept the limitations of lower RPM and metal removal rates the few times they really need it.

    Confused yet? Aren't we ALL!

    "Wish I had..." A Cazeneuve "Optica". Happier, yet, with no mortgage on the house, though!


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    In fewer words, Mori-Seiki made what you are looking for. The Mori manual lathes are not brick shithouse machines like the heavy USA stuff. You need to buy a good one, not one that had poor maintenance and abuse because they are not that tough.


    Also, I don't think that 14x30 is anywhere near 12' long. I have it's bigger brother, a 14x102 and it is exactly 15 feet long. I also have a later model 14x30 Axelson and the Axelson is a beefier machine than the American and it's still only about 9 feet overall length. The Axelson spindle motor hangs off the side of the machine too.

    Those late Americans are real heavy though. The damn outboard leg is like an inch thick casting. I've never seen another manual lathe with so much superfluous cast iron. There's a lot of extra weight on these machines that does absolutely nothing for the machine. They're not really lacking anywhere, but they easily could have saved 2000 lbs of overall weight without sacrificing a bit of performance.

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    A little later version of Bulletin 16 shows the 14 X 30 Pacemaker is but 125" overall

    http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/...16-1943-si.pdf

    Thanks to Greg Menke for the scan

    A CW 16 Monarch 30" between centers will be less than 9 feet long - I gather this from my 16 X 102 which is a bit over 14 feet

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    Likely an okuma 7215 toolroom lathe would be right in your wheelhouse for the 8' overall length. Might be in the 5000lb range though. Freaky cool machines for multi lead threading BTY. FINDING one that's not heavily worn may be a problem though.

    A lot of monarch shops bought these in the late 60's thru the 70's when new machine waiting periods got to be insane long.

    Good luck,
    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    A little later version of Bulletin 16 shows the 14 X 30 Pacemaker is but 125" overall

    A CW 16 Monarch 30" between centers will be less than 9 feet long - I gather this from my 16 X 102 which is a bit over 14 feet
    The OP's 12,000 lbs may be over the actual on the Pacemaker he cited as well, then? May have gotten model & nomenclature crossed?

    CW 16's are "speedy enough", top RPM. Thousands of tons of chips spat off them to prove that.

    Another alternative to the common Webb/Wacheon // Mori-Seiki clone, et al if a mere 30" c-to-c is good enough and "Taiwanese Generic" (or even PRC?) is NO LONGER good enough:

    Not US made. Not a lathe easy to find, despite maker still in business, over 40 thousand produced, France, Japan, Brazil (Nardini-badged) and briefly at least "assembled" in Spain, but..

    For a 14" X 30", a Cazeneuve HBX-360 is well under 80" long, overall. Roughly a foot and a half short of the 8-foot target and with nearly 50% more HP. Also has over 50% higher RPM than the OP sought.

    Weighs only a bit over 3,000 lbs, early cast base, a bit under 3,000 lbs, later weldment base, both of them easy to move.

    Greater HP than the "wishlist", its 7 HP is supportable with 10 HP Phase Perfect or a 10 HP RPC. When Milacron took it into his inventory, it had been running off a STATIC converter.

    Top of the variable-speed RPM is around 3,300, and it can go "slow enough", too.

    Inherent inch/metric threading, metric feed graduations, power-pumped and filtered lubrication pretty much "throughout".

    With some, if not MOST parts still available? The only "downside" - in MY book, anyway? Unless you can find one of the D1-nosed ones, the "tough-to-DIY" and not cheap to "just-buy" Cazeneuve-proprietary spindle nose mountup.

    Mine came with but two backplates, one mounting a 3-J chuck I've finally found a better home for than the landfill so I can get a proper 4-J onto it, the other a Rubberflex.

    I need more backplates!

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    The work envelope has been fine on the 1340, so far. I just like quality.
    It is not a bad lathe, for what it is. Taiwan made, runs smooth and cuts straight- but a bit heavier more serious machine would be nice.
    I bought this because it checked the right boxes- it would fit where it needed to go, it had metric threading,it had a short headstock, it has a DRO, and most important,it looked like it would be easy to operate for an utterly new lathe owner- and it is. It just seems a bit wimpy, compared to the Van Norman mill it sits next to. I guess I am getting enough experience to begin to see where it could be better.
    Dangerous path, yeah?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    The work envelope has been fine on the 1340, so far. I just like quality.
    It is not a bad lathe, for what it is. Taiwan made, runs smooth and cuts straight- but a bit heavier more serious machine would be nice.
    I bought this because it checked the right boxes- it would fit where it needed to go, it had metric threading,it had a short headstock, it has a DRO, and most important,it looked like it would be easy to operate for an utterly new lathe owner- and it is. It just seems a bit wimpy, compared to the Van Norman mill it sits next to. I guess I am getting enough experience to begin to see where it could be better.
    Dangerous path, yeah?!
    Nah. No fear.

    All I WANTED was a Clausing Colchester Triumph 2000 I/M to replace the 6" X 18" @las I bought new when they passed "GCA '68" and FIAT shipped my then-new 124 Sport Coupe with Weber carbs I didn't like the jetting of, even on a model-aircraft sized engine. (MOPAR Hemi family...)

    Two 10EE, a Cazeneuve HBX-360-BC, two mills, a panto engraver, a shaper, 4400 lbs avoir of Alzmetall AB/5s drillpress, Kasto 18" power hacksaw, 10 HP RPC, down to ONE 10 HP Phase-Perfect from two... and BUYING a NATO 10 KW Diesel gen set

    .... instead of kit-building the "Listeroid" off parts from India that...was the REASON I wanted a lathe FOR ... to make pulleys and parts?


    Well.... "small favours" category....

    At least I didn't haul-home a 12-foot bed 1930's Large and Shapely, a fifty-inch War One Niles, 8-foot VTL, nor a 20-foot planer out of f****g card-carrying USWA nostalgia!

    Thank God, in her infinite mercy!

    Mind, her local "shop steward", the Lady Wife of near 30 years HAS been sort of eyeballing me as if I've gone a tad less than wise when spare 10EE spindles, boxes marked "Dearborn Gage" & such started usurping the dining room until I made space downstairs. .. .

    And then we have Texians. Where they separate the toys from the boys with hunnert-ton cranes...

    A penurious Texian don't run no air-con in his motor vehicle. Just runs a six-pack at a go of Hondas into the walk-in freezer, swaps for a cold one ever' now and then...



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