Toolmaster 1D Variable Drive and Quill Feed Questions
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  1. #1
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    Default Toolmaster 1D Variable Drive and Quill Feed Questions

    I finally got tired of tripping over the Cinel 202-12 that I've had holding down a corner of the shop for too long and decided to try and get it running - I posted some questions 5 years ago but time flies.

    when I tried to power this up 5 years ago it made horrible noise and the driven pulley seemed to be low on the shaft. I bought the machine out of a school, not under power. The drive belt appears new. On tearing into it today I'm thinking someone did a belt replacement and screwed it up more than fixed it.

    Pulled the motor housing / drive off the machine, pictures below. Here are my questions - figured I would ask before I do something stupid and break something.

    Does anyone have any tricks for removing the spring on the motor side? I'm assuming I have to work the belt off - which should be a lot of fun. Then put a bit of compression on the spring so as to remove the snap ring, release pressure and pull things apart. Anyone have any wisdom on this?

    Likewise, anything to watch out for when removing the pulley assembly that is on the quill side? You will note there is one extra piece that was between the bottom pulley sheave and the motor housing base - it was captured by the drawbar but just floating. I'm suspicious that it is the retainer - part 85B in the parts list - and whoever had it apart put the whole thing back together incorrectly. As one bolt was missing and a large internal tooth lock washer was also floating around in the housing I'm figuring it was not the best person working on it. To top it off there was no woodruff key to drive the quill. Keyway in the number 98B helical gear was full of crud - looks like the key got lost at assembly time.

    The quill power feed does not appear to engage, the handwheel just spins. I think at one point on here I found a post by someone who had repaired the same problem, what amounted to a shear pin in the mechanism. But now I can't find that thread. The power feed box will also not hold oil and I think that was covered in the same thread.

    I have not had this thing running - but, since I have it this far apart would you think I should open up the back gear cavity and check things out, and re-lube? Machine is a 1966 and in pretty good shape overall. As I said, came out of a school. It's been banged some but not really worn.

    Thanks for any advice you might have on attacking this. I've searched and not a lot out there on actually tearing into these variable speed drives.

    Dale

    head-1.jpgpulleys-1.jpgpulleys-2.jpgmanual-page.jpg

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    The snap ring for the motor spring was a two man job, same for a Bridgeport. I had a large pair of locking snap ring pliers. These I gave to a helper and with two hands on the retainer I applied pressure till the snap ring was free.
    I recall putting seals in it for the same leaky feed box problem.
    Had the little slotter and all those seals were bad too. Might have been Garlock seals. They look a different than
    CRC seals.
    I think 85-B is there to ride on top of the bearing. Check the bearing for damage.
    I put in new quill bearings, the old ones were toasted.
    v-sheave-assembly-dwg.jpg
    Those Woodruff keys tend to fall out. Thick grease helps.
    Put a new keyway for the drive sheave 180 out. Might of made a new 73-B floating sheave
    cause the bore was buggerd from the key when it spun. 15 years ago.....
    John

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    John -

    Thanks for the input.

    Dale

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    Hey Dale,
    The machine I worked on had been 'worked on' by somebody else. The variable speed changer was always floating a bit. Seemed like a spacer was missing.
    That mill had the motor on the right side of the knee. The seal was bad and oil was leaking out the motor housing. Easy fix with a new seal.
    John

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    John -

    Just for your (and anyone else interested) amusement I'll give an update.

    Got it mostly apart today, only the motor pulley assembly still to do. So far have found the top bearing on the driven pulley seized up - that was most likely the noise I heard when I had it on for all of 2 or 3 seconds. Shaft shows some abuse but I'm thinking with luck it will clean up enough to accept the new bearing, may have to locktite it in. Bottom bearing seems OK but as I have to replace the top one might as well get both. Had real fun getting the belt off as is was not turned off at the correct position, but got there. Some meat head snapped the brass pin that is the draw bar lock stop, that will be easy enough to fix. When I went to take the motor bolts out three of them were not even hand tight.

    Here is the really questionable part. Someone put two flat head machine screws in the top cover so they would be in the top bearing cavity. For the life of me I can't imagine why. Spacing wise if they were a bit longer they would run into the top bearing seal. The top bearing does not appear to have divots in the seal from them, but who knows. I'll post a couple pictures just for laughs.

    No parts missing and from the size of that part that was around the draw bar - starting to really question why and where that one came from. So far all parts match the manual - I just have extra ones added.

    I'm sure I'll have more questions when I pull the next level down, the back gears. Which will lead to the power downfeed gearbox.

    Dale
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails top-bearing-drive-pulley.jpg   top-1.jpg  

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    Hey Dale, you are eligible for the Sleuth Merit Badge (Sherlock cap and magnifying glass) for teasing this mill back to life
    The downfeed gearbox ran dry and it was leaking back to the quill. Replaced the seal, done.
    Watch for painted over set screws and there likely is two. Typical Cincinnati plants a second on top to dog the first.
    Watched the day foreman and a ham handed machinist beat on the quill casting trying to drive out ........something.
    Busted out a chunk of casting because they did not see the set screw. Then they called me over to fix it and both of them disappeared.
    Rare was the need for a hammer working on a Cincinnati Machine. The design elements carry over from one machine type to another. They were always nice to work on.
    Thinking about the back gears. If they don't trouble you let that dog sleep. I worked on a lot of stuff in a production shop and sometimes had to limit the scope of work.
    John

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    John -

    Have to say I've been impressed on how this thing is designed and put together. I'm a retired mechanical engineer who had a somewhat different career (not classical mechanical design) - but I've been turning wrenches since I was about 13. First time I've ever been into a real machine tool, although I've gone through decent (Oliver, etc.) wood working machines. This machine is a 1966 - same year I graduated high school. My good friend who is a retired chip designer (as in computer chips) stopped by yesterday to watch the fun for a while. He and I have worked on cars since the 60s and were both impressed on just how heavy and well designed this thing is.

    Funny you should mention the double set screw - somewhere I've read that on here previously and even commented to Jim yesterday when I was removing one the need to be careful of that. Once I find the dog point set screw I figure I'm there. Agree on the hammer - small brass on to tap a bit maybe. Amazing the 'professional' idiots on things like You-tube - I did a bit of looking at Bridgeport head tear down variable speed just to study a bit. The one moron who is a 'machine rebuilder' in an obviously machine dealer shop was using the big hammer and had the machine table on the bench, just throwing tools on it. That's when I stop watching - better to study the parts diagram and go slow and easy.

    Good ice turning to snow here today so shop time - I'll try not to break anything and see what questions I can come up with by nightfall.

    Thanks again for the advice.

    Dale


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