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  1. #21
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    Hi Colletmaker & Andy,

    I have been trying to have a question answered for some time now. I have some very bad spindle runout on my tree 200R machine. I have started restoring this puppy and plan to put EMC2 on it for X, Y and maybe even Z axis control.

    As I started testing my machine however I realized my spindle had .008" runout on it. This is some serious runout from what I have read. I think my bearings are good, at least I want to hope they are.

    I would like to see first if my problem lies in the "nose" or business end of my spindle. I have removed the collet ring and cleaned everything out. It now attaches to and releases my collets very well. I love that system but I am hating the .008 runout right now. I need to fix that if it can be fixed.

    Please see the pictures of my Tree at:
    Tree Journeyman 200R Milling Machine Project Page 1

    I have 11 pages of pictures and more to post. YOu can click any picture to see a larger photo.

    What I am trying to figure out is how to remove my "nose" from my spindle. If you look at pages 9, 10 & 11 you'll see the series of pictures I took of the spindle and nose area. I need to know precisely how to remove this so that I can check it or fix it if possible. I'm hoping that this runout is fixable but I lack the proper documentation to adjust it or to remove it.

    Someone said they think it just unscrews from the spindle. If that was the case wouldn't it just unscrew itself while one was doing some machine work; possibly while the machine was running in reverse? If it does just screw in, maybe I can get a very large pair of pliers on it and try to break it loose to unscrew. I just don't want to damage anything trying this before I have all of the facts.

    Also I think my collet inserts only go up to 3/4" so I would definitely be interested in getting my hands on some that let me use larger bits. But first thing first. I need to fix this runout before I spend any money on CNC or tooling. Without this problem resolved, the machine is not worth much at all to me or to anyone.

  2. #22
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    Someone just sent me a message that leads me to believe my system on the end of my quill might not be standard. If this is the case it surely could explain why I have so much runout. Please look at my pictures on pages 9, 10 & 11 and see if what I have appears to be standard TREE issue or aftermarket.

    Bottom line is how do I remove the bloody thing??? I've been calling all of the darker metal (Page 10 -pics 1 & 2) below my shiny silver quill; the nose. Maybe that is the wrong term. Whatever that piece is called... I think it may be the cause of my excessive .008" runout. I need to figure out how to remove it to possibly repair or replace it.

  3. #23
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    Ok, I thought you had a 2UVR. Sorry,my bad. Looks like a aftermarket Kwik-Switch. I have heard of them but have no experience. The later CNC Tree's are a mixed bag and that Kwik-Switch may be original. Maybe somebody will chime in as nothing I can offer now is useful .

  4. #24
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    Default tree mill spindle

    Hi, I have the same spindle on my 200r, so I have to believe that it was offered as standard equipment. It uses a kwik - switch 200 tool holder. I believe the lock ring can be removed, but the socket for the tool is part of the spindle. Check run out on spindle not the end bit, your tool holder my be the problem.
    Make sure to clean the tool holder and the socket.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve L. View Post
    Hi, I have the same spindle on my 200r, so I have to believe that it was offered as standard equipment. It uses a kwik - switch 200 tool holder. I believe the lock ring can be removed, but the socket for the tool is part of the spindle. Check run out on spindle not the end bit, your tool holder my be the problem.
    Make sure to clean the tool holder and the socket.
    Thank you Steve... I have finally reached someone who can give me the verification I was after. OK so you have the same thing as I do. At least I know I'm not crazy now. I will check the runout on my "socket" as you called it. I assume you want me to put the indicator on the inside and turn the spindle by hand slowly. If there's a better way to check things please let me know.

    This page (10) and page 11 has the pics up inside of my spindle "socket" I will be sure to go up in there with some scotch bright or something lightly abrasive.
    Tree Journeyman 200R Milling Machine Project Page 10

    I have removed my lock ring and cleaned it thoroughly. It works much better now so I will remove that again tonight and then try the indicator on the inside of my socket.

  6. #26
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    I removed my locking nut (ring) from the end of my Kwik-Switch II collet holder. I then situated and placed an indicator along the inside taper of the holder. I did make sure it was clean and that nothing was caked or dried up in there. It was fairly clean.

    Turning the spindle by hand produced a .0025 runout. This was less than with the collet in place but still pretty bad from what I'm reading.

    So I'm back to square 1 essentially. What's the best way to try to fix or straighten this spindle runout? Does it sound like my shaft is bent or does it sound like a commen issue with TREE?

    By the way when the collet is in place and I use an indicator on the surface of my tool; it appears that there is about .008" runout. That is definitely large enough that I see the "wobble" with my naked eye.

    I'm getting worried here guys. Is my beautiful "new to me" Tree just a pile of junk with this problem? My end mills are getting chewed up pretty bad even with coolant and the proper speed.

  7. #27
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    Default runout

    Hi again, Do you have different tool holders? If so, try a different one, maybe the one for you collets is wore. If it still has alot of run out you may have to check the spindle bearings.


    Steve

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    Default Spindle

    Hi Hatch789, Did you figure out the problem with the runout on your tree mill?
    Just want to keep in touch, not many of the tree 200r mills out there.
    Steve

  9. #29
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    I have not... not yet at least. I'm trying to get some time to pull the motor assembly off of the top but because of it's size and weight I need to do it carefully and plan things out. Also if I do it my machine is out of commission until I get it back together.

    I have spoken to several people about cleaning and re-packing the bearings but I think my problem is the spindle itself.

    If I have 24 tenths runout; everyone says "Wow that's pretty bad" but there doesn't appear to be a very good solution for my issue.

    I've heard you can grind the spindle in place but how on earth is that achieved. And are they talking grinding the actual spindle or are they merely referring to grinding the taper at the end of the spindle?

    So I'm still stuck with a ton of runout and no clear path forward. Anyone live near Lancaster, PA ? LOL it's worth a shot.

  10. #30
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    Default 2VGC mill

    Quote Originally Posted by metal View Post
    The Tree VGC uses ZZ collets which go up to a little over 1".
    Once you get the hang of it, the collet mechanism works quickly and easily.
    I have a scan of the manual for that machine.
    Any chance of getting a copy of that manual. [email protected] 585-202-8724 Model 2VGC

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by metal View Post
    The Tree VGC uses ZZ collets which go up to a little over 1".
    Once you get the hang of it, the collet mechanism works quickly and easily.
    I have a scan of the manual for that machine.

    Would you mind sending me the manual for the Tree collet system? I am having trouble getting a collet/tool out of my machine.

    Thanks,

    Ryan

  12. #32
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    I have manuals (and a bunch of other useful stuff) for the Tree 2UVR and other models posted here:
    Tree milling machine manuals and documents | the Age of Industry

    The other machines used very similar collet systems although the collet size series are different (i.e. Z on the 2UVR versus ZZ on the VGC).

    On my machine the collets do get stuck if I over tighten them, but if I remove the nut and and give it a few (gentle) taps with a soft face hammer they drop right out.
    If there is still a tool in there then make sure you are hanging on to it when you tap it!

    Josh

  13. #33
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    I did not see a full pic of your Tree headstock to see if it is similar to the 2UVR model. On the 2UVR there is a threaded plug on the front of the headstock that acts as a window to the spindle/motor link. The original link used eccentric hardened rollers on the motor end and the spindle driving shaft slid up thru it. These rollers could be adjusted for play on this shaft. In practice, it was found that the rollers would dent the spindle shaft, so a retrofit of hardened rectangular pads took their place. Using the eccentric adjusters, you can blow out your runout by up to .005+ or more, if you aren't careful. What you do is put a indicator on the spindle(usually off of the inside taper for the collet) and adjust the eccentrics for minimum runout. I have not a clue if this will help you or not. I just looked at a better pic and could not see if the plug was there as the stop assy was blocking the view.

  14. #34
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    Does anyone know a link to a parts list and diagram for the power knee elevation unit(KE-35)? Mine started acting up and I dressed the splines and now wonder how far to press in the keyed shaft that drives the brass gear.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    I did not see a full pic of your Tree headstock to see if it is similar to the 2UVR model. On the 2UVR there is a threaded plug on the front of the headstock that acts as a window to the spindle/motor link. The original link used eccentric hardened rollers on the motor end and the spindle driving shaft slid up thru it. These rollers could be adjusted for play on this shaft. In practice, it was found that the rollers would dent the spindle shaft, so a retrofit of hardened rectangular pads took their place. Using the eccentric adjusters, you can blow out your runout by up to .005+ or more, if you aren't careful. What you do is put a indicator on the spindle(usually off of the inside taper for the collet) and adjust the eccentrics for minimum runout. I have not a clue if this will help you or not. I just looked at a better pic and could not see if the plug was there as the stop assy was blocking the view.
    Hi Daryl, sorry I have not replied in so long. I got a divorce and I'm only now picking up the pieces from the separation and starting to tinker again. I have my machines safe in my basement now. Free from threat of harm but I don't have my 3-phase electric hooked up yet. That's coming as soon as I get time to do it. In the meantime I can still tinker with the runout issue I was having previously. I'm sure that is still just as bad as it always was. I believe I did play with the rectangular pieces and the eccentric adjusters, but it just made things worse. I could never seem to get any better than 25 tenths runout. I will try it again and see what I come up with now here in 2015! -Again, sorry for the long delay. I'm just hoping someone is willing to work with me to get this fixed.

    Again I'll ask (because it was years ago when I asked before)... does anyone live hear Hershey, PA?

  16. #36
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    Default manual.

    Quote Originally Posted by metal View Post
    The Tree VGC uses ZZ collets which go up to a little over 1".
    Once you get the hang of it, the collet mechanism works quickly and easily.
    I have a scan of the manual for that machine.
    Hi,
    I just started working at a Quartz shop and the owner found himself with a Tree. He is mistaken though, when he says there are no resources for it, because here you all are! Thanks for participating and contributing.
    Do you know where other manuals can be found?
    I'll be at the shop tomorrow to get a better description of the mill.

    Many Thanks

  17. #37
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    My web site is not working at the moment but I still have all those scans.
    PM me your email and I will send them to you. There is also a yahoo tree group with some files.


    Quote Originally Posted by handymachinist65 View Post
    Hi,
    I just started working at a Quartz shop and the owner found himself with a Tree. He is mistaken though, when he says there are no resources for it, because here you all are! Thanks for participating and contributing.
    Do you know where other manuals can be found?
    I'll be at the shop tomorrow to get a better description of the mill.

    Many Thanks

  18. #38
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    We are here but unfortunately manuals are scarce. I have totally disabled and ripped out the old CNC stuff in my 200R . I have replaced it with new MESA boards (3 of them) and LinuxCNC.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColletMaker View Post
    If anyone is looking for Tree Mill Collets, please give me a call. We can make any type or size required.

    Elaire Corporation - Tree Mill Collets
    ColletMaker are you guys still making Collets for Tree Milling Machines? I have a 1983 Tree 200R and it seems to take the Acura Flex or the Kwik Switch 200 collets.

  20. #40
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    Hi,

    I'm new to the forum but have been stalking PM for years. I know this post is very old now, but I'm working on buying an old Tree 2VG-C and was hoping to get a copy of this manual that you mention. I've scoured the net for an operators manual or any other documentation for the machine. Is there any chance it's still available to share?

    Thanks


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