Van Norman 22L Powerfeeds Help
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  1. #1
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    Default Van Norman 22L Powerfeeds Help

    Dragged home a Van Norman 22L last week.
    It seems nice and tight, but the Powerfeeds won't engage.
    The problem is The Bevel Gear and Shaft (runs horizontal in to the knee) that's driven by the main Feed Gear (that runs vertical up the knee) is Slopping around in the bearings.
    Instead of engaging with the Feed Drive, The Bevel Gear pushes forward and pivots up so that it won't make contact.
    Now that I know the problem, It should be easy to fix, EXCEPT, I can't get access to it to bush the Bearing cups or turn a new shaft or whatever the best solution might be.
    I can't see exactly what's going on, because the Gear is in the way, and it's held captive by the Clutch Cup.
    I suspect the clutch cup is press fit on to the bearing it rides on, then the shaft, so I don't want to pull it off, because the space is so confined I won't have the leverage to press fit it back on.
    Another solution would be to raise the Feed Drive gear up a hair, but I can't figure out how to do that either.
    Any suggestions? Any experience?
    I think I've taken everything apart that I can reasonably easily get back together.
    I'm half tempted to cut a panel out of the knee casting, then machine a piece to fit back in the hole.

    The first photo is the left side. If you look past the clutch and the 2 shafts you can make out the Feed Drive and the Bevel Gear.
    Second Photo is the right side.
    That's the gear that Connects to the bevel gear via a shaft, that I can't get out because it's behind the clutch cup.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails p1080447.jpg   p1080453.jpg   p1080454.jpg  

  2. #2
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    I'm afraid I'm not able to help you much, since I haven't taken apart the knee of mine either. But I think that the bad news is that you have to remove table and saddle, and you also need to take the knee off from the column. There are at least three ports on the column side of the knee, likely to access the bearings of the clutch cup and other shafts.
    I suspect that there is another port under the saddle, but I'm not sure about that.

    Paolo

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    The Feed Drive Gear has a collar on it (according to the manual). If I'd have to access that to get the knee off anyway, It's gotta be accessible, in which case, I could just raise the Feed gear up a hair, thereby solving my problem. Any experience?
    Thanks so much for your replies BTW!

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    Ha! I got an idea! A heavy duty custom Angle bracket.
    I can fabricate a beefy angle bracket type piece, then drill and tap the casting on the inside of the panel window lip.
    I can machine a cup and insert some brass or bronze, OR a little center point Pin, to sit in the shafts center drill, to stabilize, locate, and put pressure on the end I have access to.
    If there's enough play in the Feed Drive end, that I don't have access to, eventually it will shake itself apart, and / or waller itself out more, but otherwise I'd have to get in there anyway, and this will buy me some time to see that everything else is good, and worth putting all the time and effort in to (and finally start making some chips!)

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    Pulling the table and saddle shouldn't be a big job and I think you should do that regardless. I've only worked on No. 12s and No. 16, but based on them, there's a lot of places for krud to accumulate. Pulling the table and saddle is always a good idea on a newly acquired milling machine.

    Cal

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    For now, If I can avoid, I'm gonna.
    Room's too tight. I got nowhere to set the table and saddle while I'm working on everything else.
    That's a last resort, or a warmer weather endeavor

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    Powerfeeds are engaging
    The Clutch is ratcheting (I think), if don't keep a little pressure on the Rapid Handle.
    I think That can be fixed buy adjusting the clutch, OR adjusting the height / position of the gear linkage to engage the rapids from either side.

    I made a little bracket to push the Gear and shaft in place
    p1080563.jpg
    I'm well aware the welding is fug
    The first pass looked nice, but didn't have great penetration on the main bracket.
    That angle is meant to support another angle, where I'll mount a center point (if needed) for the shaft.
    Right now I don't think I need it.
    I brazed Aluminum Bronze on the bearing surfaces (the back of the bracket, and the scoop that supports the collar on the gear), and that seems to be working (for now.)
    Nice thing is it's non-destructive (Haha, unless the whole thing eats itself ).
    When I get the room to take the knee off, if there's access to the Feed Drive Gear and Bevel Gear chamber, to fix it properly, I can remove the bracket and leave only a couple of tapped holes.

    Question : The Drive levers work in reverse of the direction I want the feed to move. Is this backwards?
    Ie: Knee Feed - Pull the lever up, the knee moves down.
    Do yours work the same way? Should I reverse polarity on the feed motor?
    I inferred from the manual that the feed direction correlated to the direction of the feed handles.

    Not there yet, but I'm moving in the right direction.

    Thanks!

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    Cast on the base of mine, next to the splined shaft powering the feeds, there is an arrow showing the correct sense of rotation of the shaft (counterclockwise, looking from the top).

    Paolo

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    Thanks! Just checked, Mine's running Clockwise.
    Guess I gotta get in to her belly and figure out where that got swapped around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRock1000 View Post
    Thanks! Just checked, Mine's running Clockwise.
    Guess I gotta get in to her belly and figure out where that got swapped around.
    Its highly likely the forward / reverse of the spindle is backwards too. Assume its three phase... If it is just find the power leads in the cabinet and swap any two which will reverse all the motors. Obviously if its just one motor wrong then swap two wires of the three going out to the power feed motor.

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    That was the weird part. Forward / Reverse on the spindle was regular (forward = Clockwise).
    Probably could have changed it on the Feed Motor Contactor, but the wires were all Black, and bent, and laid out nicely (mostly solid too).
    Definitely not factory wiring, but it's still in good shape, so if I don't need to mess with it... well you know what happens when you start yanking on old wires.
    It is 3 Phase, so I just swapped 2 on the Feed Motor and it's working great.
    Adjusted the clutch too.
    Rapid is working, unless I pull it hard, so I may end up loosening the clutch 1 more notch, but I just want to make a cut.
    Still have to make an adapter for the taper.
    Just had a thought, I might be able to make a backplate and thread a moderate sized chuck on the spindle nose...
    That'd even allow me to run stock through the spindle

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    Sounds like you're sorting it out. On mine, the feeds only worked until I made a cut. There was enough friction to move the table around, but the shear pin was broken. I recall it is a 3/16" mild steel pin accessed from the left side.

    There is probably a small but captive market for B&S 13 adapters for VNs if you make extras.

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    Yeah, i haven't made a cut yet...
    What is the shear pin in?

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    Here's her first good meal
    Powerfeeds working well, and B&S #13 - 40 taper adapter in place.

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    Made this cut on a forklift fork


    Then while I was setting up to bevel the edges for welding, it jammed!
    It made a weird (er than usual) noise in the rapids, then locked up.
    Took both the side panels off and I can't see anything wrong, just locked up.
    Any of ya'll had this happen before?

    JacobS - I found the shear pin. It's on the same shaft as the HNL Lever.
    I think mine's sheared off too, but it was cutting alright (until it wasn't).

    Right now everything is just jammed. Maybe it's something in the front of the knee?

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    Got it, I think it's just sticky around the 5s on the feed settings.
    Just gotta run it halfway between feeds till everything starts moving again.
    Hopefully that'll loosen up as I use it more often (instead of make it all go Kerplowie)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobS View Post
    Sounds like you're sorting it out. On mine, the feeds only worked until I made a cut. There was enough friction to move the table around, but the shear pin was broken. I recall it is a 3/16" mild steel pin accessed from the left side.

    There is probably a small but captive market for B&S 13 adapters for VNs if you make extras.
    SO how did you align the shafts / shear pin holes, after the pin sheared and the shafts rotated out of alignment with each other?
    Just stick a rag in the gears (to lock them) and twist the other side of the shaft with a little pipe wrench?

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    Yeah, I'd guess the shear pin is broken. Replace it with mild steel. I think it uses 3/16". I don't recall rotating the shafts to be an issue. Probably put it in neutral.

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  25. #19
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    Got in there and looked at it tonight. The shear pin has that little wire wrapped around it?
    That all seems to be in good shape.
    I wish it were that easy.
    It's the back bearing on the Bevel Gear and Shaft, coming from the Feed Drive.
    Gotta pull the knee and replace it.
    Luckily I scoured Paolo's thread on taking the knee and the ram off, and I see there is a panel on the bearing face of the knee.
    Doesn't look like it'll give me much room, but it's better than cutting in to the side of the knee (although that might be easier than taking the knee off).


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