Van Norman 22LU Knee Disassembly
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  1. #1
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    Default Van Norman 22LU Knee Disassembly

    I've been working on the reassembly of a VN22LU. She came in 3 milk crates. Pieces missing, pieces broken. Finally sorted all that out. Huge jigsaw puzzle which included making some gears and shafts. Regardless, I believe I may have found the original problem. The clutch assembly has plates which are clearly deformed and worn.

    I'm having difficulty figuring out how to extract the assembly. Might be as simple as a burr on a keyway...

    Has anyone had experience with the extraction? The exploded view in the many manuals I've collected don't show all the parts which are actually part of the machine. Close, but not complete.

    Replacing the clutch or plates will likely be impossible. Once I get her apart I will have to investigate the possibility of fabrication of clutch plates. First I need to get her apart.

    Any ideas?


    Thank you,
    Daryl
    MN

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    Honestly I'm not sure of the question? Are you trying to get the clutch assembly out of the machine? I was in the knee of my 22L a couple of years back and as I recall that came out really easy. I had the entire front of the knee in pieces.

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    She isn't coming out.
    I anticipated she should just slide off based on the exploded view.
    Pry, tap-- nothing.
    There is a nut which will catch a hook spanner wrench but it looks as though it just keeps the clutch plates on.
    Must be a burr, bend, other which is hanging it up.
    Thanks for the feed back.

    Daryl
    MN

    Daryl
    MN

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    Daryl,

    can you post some photos?

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    Reeltor,
    Thanks for asking.
    The clutch plates are pretty soft. Not sure what they are. Copper? Some laminated alloy?
    As disconcerting is that this entire assembly should just slide off.
    I've removed a few set screws from all over the shaft hoping that something would move.
    I've used a spanner wrench on the end as in the pic.
    That just doesn't seem right.....
    Also, note that the entire shaft slides forward and nests in the cup. Currently, I've got the shaft dangling off the front of the knee.
    I'm still not sure that the cutting torch is the best answer. But, it is a growing option.

    Daryl
    MN
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0414.jpg   img_0446.jpg   img_0445.jpg  

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    That last pic, looks like you have a screw left in the end plate. Looks like it is a pattern of three, so there might also be one hidden behind the shaft. Even looks like there may be a snap ring around the shaft, just next to the screw.

    Thanks for the pics, I have never been inside my VN22LU, the gears look to be less quality then I would have expected.

    img_0445a.jpg

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    Its actually a roll pin. There are three of them. The exploded view in the parts book shows this as a single assembly. I've been trying to take it off as such. There is no way to push the roll pin from the back as she sits. I'd have to pull it out. Hmmm.

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    What about the piece that looks like a snap ring?
    The manual I have, only shows one clutch (No 2l-631, is that the same one?), but none of the roll pins, the snap ring, or even the plate.

    img_0445b.jpg

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    If you've removed the bearings at the front of the knee can't that entire assembly swing towards us and come out the side of the knee?

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    Superburban,
    Yep, the exploded view shows only the assembly. A plate on the knee references a company in Racine (Twin Disc). Complete speculation on my part. However, I wonder if they purchased the assembly as a complete unit from them. I've not yet called them to learn if they have any records.

    OhioMike,
    Unfortunately the clutch assembly OD is larger than the ID of the hole in the knee. Everything else fits through the hole.

    I can't help thinking that the answer is completely obvious. I just can't find it...


    Daryl
    MN

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    Daryl,

    Post your serial number so that we can double check to see if there are any differences between the different part manuals that are on the web

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    Not to side track too much, but do you have access to other manuals? My 22LU, SN 7045 is a lot different then the manual I have, from the web.

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    Saddle is factory stamped 5622. That should make her a 1941-1942.
    Hand stamped next to it is "DPC 121".
    I'm guessing that has to do with the original purchasers tracking system.

    She is no museum piece. Yep, the gears are worn.
    But, she is a universal, with a subhead, and VN 10inch vertical DH and most of the gears.
    I'm really hoping to learn on her, and eventually when another VN22 comes along in better condition find this one another learners home.

    I've got two manuals. One off Vintagemachinery or similar. Another, I believe is a much newer manual. I will ask if he is ok with me sharing the digital copy he provided. Regardless, other than the fact that they are both artist renditions from different artists they don't provide much different data.

    I'm headed out to stare at it some more.
    Thanks for the commiseration!

    Daryl
    MN

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    The bigger hammer shook the burr from the set screw loose. Next: identifying the problem with the clutch plate. Hmmm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglydog View Post
    Saddle is factory stamped 5622. That should make her a 1941-1942.
    Hand stamped next to it is "DPC 121".
    I'm guessing that has to do with the original purchasers tracking system.
    DPC is the Defense Plant Corporation which was a entity created by the US Government to fund the expansion of war production. DPC would buy land, build factories and purchase the machines to outfit them and then lease those assets to a company that would make products for the government.

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    Ohio Mike, That's great data! With your lead I've found considerable general information on DPC.
    Anybody, happen to know what these plates are made of?
    It's magnetic, but looks like copper.
    I'll be calling "Twin-Disc" on Monday. Looks like they are still in business.

    Daryl
    MN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superburban View Post
    Not to side track too much, but do you have access to other manuals? My 22LU, SN 7045 is a lot different then the manual I have, from the web.
    I have 3 different VN22 manuals. Received an original with my mill, that is the latest one from 1953-54. My serial number is in the 7's so the manual should match yours. It's saved on another machine, I'll post it in a day or 2

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    Thank you Reeltor!!
    Met with a retired engineer today.
    He is guessing the plates are copper coated steel.
    He is looking up a chemical test to confirm.
    He says actually doing the plating can be done in a home shop!
    If Twin=Disc comes up empty, then I'll attempt to make my own.
    Making a couple is nearly as easy as making a dozen.
    Does anyone know if they need one for their VN?
    I wish the value of this VN would go up every time I invest an hour+...

    Daryl
    MN

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    Uglydog, I don't have anything to contribute to your project (my VN is a #28 and rather different internally), but very much appreciate your taking the time to write it up for PM.

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    Update. The parts guru was out today. I'll call back.
    Stopped at the local auto shop. He is an old school mechanic who prefers to hear the engine and drivetrain before hooking it up to all the gadgets.
    He tinkered with the assembly for a few minutes. Admitted he doesn't know anything about lathes or mills. Then elaborated that for 1941 he was surprised it wasn't asbestos, clearly ahead of its time. He declared that it was a synchronous drive similar to today's transmissions, in that it allows the turning gears to slow therefore permitting them to mesh. He recommended that if I don't find OEM plates to attempt to straighten them and move them around as the first and last obviously get them most wear (4 plates total). I can try to make one. He also observed that by welding it up would eliminate the entire problem. But would require the machine to be off in order to change speeds. Likely the biggest inconvenience would be the rapid PF.

    Daryl
    MN


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