Van Norman 22LU Knee Disassembly - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglydog View Post
    Update. The parts guru was out today. I'll call back.
    Stopped at the local auto shop. He is an old school mechanic who prefers to hear the engine and drivetrain before hooking it up to all the gadgets.
    He tinkered with the assembly for a few minutes. Admitted he doesn't know anything about lathes or mills. Then elaborated that for 1941 he was surprised it wasn't asbestos, clearly ahead of its time. He declared that it was a synchronous drive similar to today's transmissions, in that it allows the turning gears to slow therefore permitting them to mesh. He recommended that if I don't find OEM plates to attempt to straighten them and move them around as the first and last obviously get them most wear (4 plates total). I can try to make one. He also observed that by welding it up would eliminate the entire problem. But would require the machine to be off in order to change speeds. Likely the biggest inconvenience would be the rapid PF.

    MN
    Daryl,
    I need to turn my 22L off to change the speed of the feed; I always thought that is standard/proper way to change the feed speed. The rapids are applied while the table is in motion.
    Am I missing something?

  2. #22
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    Great question Reeltor.
    Please note that I haven't yet made chips on mine.
    As all the powerfeeds in any direction at any rate wont mesh.
    Presumably because the clutch assembly isn't functioning as intended.
    However, my reading and re-reading of the manual identifies that the pf motor can be operating when making PF changes if everything is in set correctly. Excerpt from the manual attached.

    Please correct me if I'm misreading!

    Daryl
    MN

    Edit: sorry about the flipped image.
    Not sure how to change it!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0451.jpg  

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  4. #23
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    That's the way I change my feeds, put it in neutral, then turn the big change gear plate.

    I always thought the clutch was for the rapid transverse, but its not the easiest to understand the drawings. When I get time, I want to pull the cover off, and look inside. I should change the oil anyway, it still has what it came with. I changed the fluids, and looked inside the gear train on the ram, and the spindle head. They all looked great You would never know its over 60 years old.

  5. #24
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    Note: when you pull the inspection covers you might tear the gasket.
    I was not able to get the blue form-a-gasket to seal.
    Finally found some gasket material on the shelf and cut some.
    You may want to ensure that you've got the what you need when you take off the cover.
    Still didn't work but at least it didn't leak!
    How many times have I had her apart???


    Daryl
    MN

  6. #25
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    I misspoke, I thought you were saying that you could change the speed of the feeds while the feed was engaged. IIRC watching YouTube video of several posters who have K/T mills, they appear to change the speeds while in the middle of a cut.
    I try to get the speed set prior to turning on the mill, but do it as Superburban described if I want to tweak the feed speed. Sorry for the confusion.

  7. #26
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    Default VanNorman 22L manual

    I found a PDF copy of the Van Norman 22L manual for serial number 7886. The files are too large to upload here.

    Anyone have any ideas?

  8. #27
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    How about submit to vintage machinery?

    Daryl
    MN

  9. #28
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    Or the Van Norman group over at Yahoo. I hate Yahoo Groups, but they do have file and photo space.

  10. #29
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    Finally got around to calling Twin-Disc in Racine Wisc. They are the original manufacture of the 1941 clutch assembly. They very gently referred me to the regional dealer. Took them about 3 minutes to find digital copies of the vintage clutch assembly plans and parts list, and 4000 new-old stock clutch plates. While not free, they were less $ than I expected. They are in the mail. Hopefully, next weekend I will begin reassembly!

    Daryl
    MN

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  12. #30
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    I put long odds against NOS parts support. VERY COOL.

    Also impressed by your perseverance on a bucket of loose parts machine. I don't have the patience.

  13. #31
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    Got her together over the weekend. Definitely a two person job lining up that clutch assembly!
    Adjusted the clutch today after work.

    The knee, saddle and table work in all directions!! As does the power feed!!

    Chips will happen this weekend.
    During which I will need to adjust gibs and etc.
    Once fully functional and adjustments are optimized then I can indicate for accuracy and precision.
    She's taken almost a year, and come a long way from the milk crates, and learned alot in the process.

    Thank you all for the encouragement. There's been few weeks when she got close to going to the scrapper.

    Daryl
    MN

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  15. #32
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    Does anyone know the spindle speed lever positions for a VN22?
    The plate is long gone, and I don't find it in any of the manuals I've got.
    I have found that the supposed speeds are: 40, 75, 144, 200, 312, 361, 557, 700, and 1100.
    Alternatively, I will experiment until I figure out the combination.

    Thank you,
    Daryl
    MN

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglydog View Post
    Does anyone know the spindle speed lever positions for a VN22?
    ...
    Daryl,
    This is the hard-to-read plate off my late-production (SN 7464) 22L

    vn_22l_7464_speeds.jpg

    In essence, here are the speeds:

    A-2 50
    A-1 95
    A-3 180
    C-2 250
    B-2 395
    C-1 480
    B-1 750
    C-3 900
    B-3 1400

    I hope it will help you.

    Paolo

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  18. #34
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    That's a huge help Paolo!
    At least I know the likely sequence.
    The numbers I cited were off a VN brochure and assumed an 1100rpm.

    Do you know what rpm you are running?
    Is it the original motor?

    Daryl
    MN

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    Daryl,
    I think the motor is original or, at least, from the same time period. This 22L has a NTB50 spindle.
    I do also have an older 22L (SN 5097) with a VN #2 collet (Hardinge 50V) spindle, but right now it is disassembled, well covered by tarps. Here are a bunch of pictures of both machines.
    It looks like I don't have any picture of the motor nameplate, but I strongly believe it is a 3HP 1750 rpm motor. I can confirm it tonight when I'm back home.
    Now it is wired to a Chinese VFD.

    Paolo

  20. #36
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    p1010660.jpg

    Daryl,

    Paolo has the speeds correct. Attached is the photo of my tag in case you need the settings.

    Mike

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  22. #37
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    Thank you Mike and Paolo!

    My motor is 1130rpm, instead of 1750rpm.
    I wonder if they geared them a little faster when new?
    Regardless, pattern is very likely exactly the same.

    Daryl
    MN

  23. #38
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    Mine has the original Westinghouse motors, both are 1200 rpm.

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  25. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio Mike View Post
    Mine has the original Westinghouse motors, both are 1200 rpm.
    Motors on my 22L are also 1200 rpm Westinghouse

  26. #40
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    Does this mean I have justification for purchasing one of those swanky rpm gadgets?


    Daryl
    MN


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