Van norman hi speed sub head
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  1. #1
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    Default Van norman hi speed sub head

    Just pics for now. Van Norman Hi Speed Sub Head for the no22 Mill.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 22-hi-speed-head-11.jpg   22-hi-speed-head-12.jpg   22-hi-speed-head-13.jpg   22-hi-speed-head-14.jpg   img_20181206_142049289.jpg  


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    I'm on night shift this weekend. I'll elaborate later.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_20181206_142102445.jpg   22-hi-speed-head-03.jpg   img_20181206_142414459.jpg   img_20181206_125536366.jpg  

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    Picture #3 is similar to the head I sold recently.. I had adapted it to my 2hl K&T and used it before I got K&T vertical heads for my machine.. I made a spindle for the head which used R8 tooling.. It worked quite well but there was not much space between the spindle and the table of the machine.. Ramsay 1

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    Small world! I am the one who bought the head that used to belong to Ramsay1 (thank you again!!) around a year ago. I'd also corresponded with Brockwood on the VN Yahoogroup forum. My VN 1R3 has 3 bolt mount pattern on the machine and the head I bought from Ramsay1 has a 4 bolt mount flange. Meanwhile, Brockwood has a VN22 mill that has a 4 bolt mount pattern on the machine and his head has a three bolt mount flange. It's possible that the three bolt mount flange on Brockwood's head, if it might interchange with the 4 bolt head on my head that I bought from Ramsay1, might give both me and Brockwood both heads that would be "native fit" for our machines. I am hoping that maybe just the flanges can interchange, because there are other aspects of the head that I got from Ramsay1 that I prefer to keep. That'd also be a lot easier with shipping if we can just trade flanges. Brockwood and I are now exchanging details, although it may be a while before I can get out in my unheated VT shop to get the details from my head, because I am getting over some aggressive germs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kd1yt View Post
    Small world! I am the one who bought the head that used to belong to Ramsay1 (thank you again!!) around a year ago. I'd also corresponded with Brockwood on the VN Yahoogroup forum. My VN 1R3 has 3 bolt mount pattern on the machine and the head I bought from Ramsay1 has a 4 bolt mount flange. Meanwhile, Brockwood has a VN22 mill that has a 4 bolt mount pattern on the machine and his head has a three bolt mount flange. It's possible that the three bolt mount flange on Brockwood's head, if it might interchange with the 4 bolt head on my head that I bought from Ramsay1, might give both me and Brockwood both heads that would be "native fit" for our machines. I am hoping that maybe just the flanges can interchange, because there are other aspects of the head that I got from Ramsay1 that I prefer to keep. That'd also be a lot easier with shipping if we can just trade flanges. Brockwood and I are now exchanging details, although it may be a while before I can get out in my unheated VT shop to get the details from my head, because I am getting over some aggressive germs.
    Hey good to hear from you again! It has been hard for me to get back into my shop as I have been having back issues and standing for any period of time has been very difficult... What have you done so far? Ramsay 1

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    I think it might be April before we are certain of our options - but we 3 are all ready becoming friends! kd1yt has the perfect solution - if parts prove to be interchangeable. I'm running a heater in my uninsulated garage - but 30 degrees is cold in Louisiana. I'm beginning to take measurements on the mount portion of the hi speed head with the goal of disassembling the mount & documenting those parts. It's a start. I found a clear copy of the factory drawing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 06.jpg  

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    I actually made a drive shaft with 40 std taper to adapt this head to my 2hl K&T...This is a very smooth running, rigid little head and as stated before, the only disadvantage for me was the lack of area between the table and the spindle.. Ramsay 1

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    Hope you guys don't mind me joining in this meeting of the minds.. I also have one of these heads that came with an old K&T 1a I bought several years ago and I am hoping to mate the two together in the not too distant future. The fellow I bought them from said to just drill and tap the three holes in the face of the column and be done with it, but, damned if I can bring myself to purposely deface the old girl after she came through the past hundred years virtually unscathed and has very few scars for her age. Having said that, my thought is to make an adapter that would clamp to the column and then bolt the head to that. Any thoughts one way or another?

    Thanks, Don

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    I like your plan Don. Can't see modifying them permanently either. Would the K&T vertical head be a good pattern for you?

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    Yes a K&T vertical would make a good pattern, but I have no idea where I might find one in person to take measurements from, kind of a machine tool desert here and a-bouts. I have a few projects lined up ahead of this one but am trying to form a solid plan and gather the bits and pieces I'll need to pull it off. Now if I can only find/scrounge the skills required to do the old gal proud. LOL.
    Any idea what taper the head might have in it? the mill has a 40 taper, so the drawing of the drive adapter above will come in handy.
    Also. while I have ya'all, I have some 3/4" steel plate here, but my thought is that it might not be thick enough by the time I clean it up and square it, I'm hoping to scrounge some 1" or thicker......

    Thanks again, Don.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 140mower View Post
    Yes a K&T vertical would make a good pattern, but I have no idea where I might find one in person to take measurements from, kind of a machine tool desert here and a-bouts. I have a few projects lined up ahead of this one but am trying to form a solid plan and gather the bits and pieces I'll need to pull it off. Now if I can only find/scrounge the skills required to do the old gal proud. LOL.
    Any idea what taper the head might have in it? the mill has a 40 taper, so the drawing of the drive adapter above will come in handy.
    Also. while I have ya'all, I have some 3/4" steel plate here, but my thought is that it might not be thick enough by the time I clean it up and square it, I'm hoping to scrounge some 1" or thicker......

    Thanks again, Don.
    The bracket I made for my 2hl was under 3/4 inch and it worked fine.. Which head are you trying to use? Any pictures of what you have? Ramsay 1

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    Abom79 & James Kilroy have both shown installing & removing the stock vertical head from their K&Ts on YouTube. Might get some ideas from them.
    Essentially, the head centers on the spindle & a bar on each side clamps it to the vertical ram. Similar to how Van Norman did it on their horizontal mill as seen below.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 01.jpg  

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    K&T 1a

    Hope I did this right.... It should lead to a thread from when I first brought the mill and head home. It's been a long time that my little shop has looked that "airy" .... LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by brockwood View Post
    Abom79 & James Kilroy have both shown installing & removing the stock vertical head from their K&Ts on YouTube. Might get some ideas from them.
    Essentially, the head centers on the spindle & a bar on each side clamps it to the vertical ram. Similar to how Van Norman did it on their horizontal mill as seen below.
    Keith Fenner is another that I have seen put one on his machine. I have been slowly accruing the tooling that I am anticipating needing, I have also had a 5hp rpc made up for me by an electrical engineer friend of mine, even made my first gear last year (on about the third attempt. lol) which has given the confidence to think I might actually pull off the taper and the spline for the drive adapter. As you may have noticed, I'm still a little green at this, but each success builds a little confidence and each failure has a lesson buried in it (the little oopses just become smaller bits of stock for smaller next projects.. LOL).
    I'll try and get some better pictures of my head including the data plate and post them up.

    Thanks again, Don.

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    Some of the K&T heads do not dowel on the overarms.. A case in point is the std hi speed head with and without movable quill...They are the ones that have spacer discs on the drive and driven gears to assure proper lash of the gear teeth.. This is how you can tell if you run across a drive gear with a disc riveted to the gear...

    On gear cutting, here is an excellent old video on the subject: cutting a spur gear vintage film - YouTube Ramsay1

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    I have begun my measurements on the mount. Been sidetracked with repairing my lathe. I'll get this pic completed with all the details as time permits.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hi-speed-mount-01.jpg  

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    December kicked my ______ on schedule, between me being sick, things at work, helping my parents with winter/ holiday/ medical issues, etc...But I am starting to be able to come up for air. I hope to be able to remove and at least begin to measure the rear subsection of my VN head tomorrow (Sunday) evening.

    If it turns out that Brockwood and I can swap the read portions of our heads, so that my head bolts up to my 1R3 with nothing in-between, and his bolts up to his machine with nothing in-between, then I will have as a "leftover" the adapter plate that Ramsay1 (who I bought my head from) had used to previously adapt the head onto his K&T- which means that the adapter would be available for 140mower (if the dimensions of his K&T are similar to the K&T Ramsay1 had the VN head on).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kd1yt View Post
    December kicked my ______ on schedule, between me being sick, things at work, helping my parents with winter/ holiday/ medical issues, etc...But I am starting to be able to come up for air. I hope to be able to remove and at least begin to measure the rear subsection of my VN head tomorrow (Sunday) evening.

    If it turns out that Brockwood and I can swap the read portions of our heads, so that my head bolts up to my 1R3 with nothing in-between, and his bolts up to his machine with nothing in-between, then I will have as a "leftover" the adapter plate that Ramsay1 (who I bought my head from) had used to previously adapt the head onto his K&T- which means that the adapter would be available for 140mower (if the dimensions of his K&T are similar to the K&T Ramsay1 had the VN head on).
    That would be nice if it works, but I have my doubts, as the 1A is a pretty small mill....... The column on mine is 10" to the widest part of the dovetail. Either way, if possible I'd appreciate it if you could take a picture of the adapter Ramsay1 made to see if the picture in my mind matches what's known to work.
    Thanks, Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by 140mower View Post
    That would be nice if it works, but I have my doubts, as the 1A is a pretty small mill....... The column on mine is 10" to the widest part of the dovetail. Either way, if possible I'd appreciate it if you could take a picture of the adapter Ramsay1 made to see if the picture in my mind matches what's known to work.
    Thanks, Don
    I made that bracket for a K&T 2hl which has a 9 inch column....Ramsay 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsay1 View Post
    I made that bracket for a K&T 2hl which has a 9 inch column....Ramsay 1
    I would have thought the column on 2hl would be wider than that of the 1A. Just so I understand correctly,the 2hl is 9" at the widest part of the dovetail?
    To be truthful, I likely won't be getting too serious about this project this winter as I have a 13" South bend O series to put online ahead of the mill, (of course I'm easily distracted, so who knows what order I will really do things in).

    Thanks again, Don


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