Vertical head on No2 B&S Mill - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    15 hours working on the mill its beginning to transform back to a useful machine. The coolant sump was full of sand, so it sat outside at the Hanford site for some time there. I am moving forward on this, I have a radial drill right behind it.

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  3. #22
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    Here is a look at the chain drive, the drive motor is 5hp

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Here is a look at the chain drive, the drive motor is 5hp
    That's a classy touch, B&S!

    The one on our old 50-inch 50 DC HP Niles conehead conversion about ten or eleven inches wide, had run - dry - as far as any visible evidence, anyway - for easily 25 years or thereabouts by the early '60's as it was rumoured to have been a desperate War Two shortages kludge. Mind, it weren't used at ALL, many days of a week, so long as there was a 30-incher open and the work would fit.

    Lot wrong with that tired old hoor, but the Morse not-so-silent-chain drive wasn't on the list.

    There must be a mention as to lube - or not - still around though?

    Absent instructions to the contrary, Wurth's HHS-K or HHS-2000 would be a temptation?

  6. #24
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    There is a small cover on the heavy and doweled rear cover, it has a small drip oiler that will drip oil down to the center of the motor sprocket. Cast in the cover is "OIL Little"
    There is a local Reed Prentice geared head lathe with a similar drive, that machine also made 1944. This chain drive is in good shape, I don't think I can wear it out. The hub rpm is only 500. If the chain fails, a V pulley hub could be fabricated.
    I am now in 20hrs on this project, I managed to get the y axis loose and moved over the cleaned up spot. The knee was 2" from being all the way down, I removed the rust on the column ways bottom, loosened the gibs, added some downward pressure from the knees screw, and with one smack from a 5 lb lead hammer, the knee let loose with a nice thud.
    I have all the levers free, it shifts into all gears, now I finish the scraping the rust on the ways, then I can move it inside, I have to crank the table and over arms, to wiggle it through a door.
    Weather looks good today for scraping rust.

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    There is a small cover on the heavy and doweled rear cover, it has a small drip oiler that will drip oil down to the center of the motor sprocket. Cast in the cover is "OIL Little"
    There is a local Reed Prentice geared head lathe with a similar drive, that machine also made 1944. This chain drive is in good shape, I don't think I can wear it out. The hub rpm is only 500. If the chain fails, a V pulley hub could be fabricated.
    Chain can still be had, original link-form, even.

    AWD vehicle transfer cases - and not-only - still have the proverbial belly full of another version of it, albeit running in lube. Mind the torque and HP needs..

    It's the sprockets you would be better-off to MAKE. Cheap, they were never.

    Weather looks good today for scraping rust.
    I like yer thinkin'

    Wonder if we can frame that as a shop-wall decorator and sell enough to buy more Old Iron?

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    Have a look at this. And soon, please:

    Need a Nebel 1308 microturn toolroom late for <$1K?

    West Coast. Outta my reach on rigging and transport, not purchase price.

    Looong haul, North, even same side of the continent.

    That said, I can't think of anyone on PM any BETTER qualified to run that beast and write-up a comparison to your long years on 10EE.

    Got your hands full already. But you know the old saw:

    You want to get something DONE? Ask a BUSY man.

    2CW

  9. #27
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    I remember the Nebel that was out of Hanford discussed here, I asked one of the old timers if he remembered the Machines, he didn't. He said they tried many other brands, but basically Monarch won out due to "ease of use", durability and good factory service. The Nebel I am sure is a great machine, but those little knobs look like they should be on a radio, stuff like that just slows things down.
    At the time the Nebel was made , others like Harrison, Weiler and Shaublin were trying to get a piece of the market Monarch had in the nuclear and defense industry. Monarch did win with over 8000 of the square dial machines produced, there is probably less then 100 Nebel tool room lathes.

    My wife is encouraging me to getting these old machines going, to keep me active during the winter. This time last winter, I had my seventh surgery, and was dependent on morphine! I can say working on this mill is a joy compared to that, and a work out to boot.
    I finally got the saddle to the back of the knee, this was the worst rusty area.

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    I remember the Nebel that was out of Hanford discussed here, I asked one of the old timers if he remembered the Machines, he didn't. He said they tried many other brands, but basically Monarch won out due to "ease of use", durability and good factory service. The Nebel I am sure is a great machine, but those little knobs look like they should be on a radio, stuff like that just slows things down.
    At the time the Nebel was made , others like Harrison, Weiler and Shaublin were trying to get a piece of the market Monarch had in the nuclear and defense industry. Monarch did win with over 8000 of the square dial machines produced, there is probably less then 100 Nebel tool room lathes.
    "Data mining", rather than hands-on, my guess - even if a"SWAG" not a "WAG" - is that there may have been fewer than 20 ever shipped. A mere dozen is possible. Simply put, Nebel was not a wealthy firm.


    My wife is encouraging me to getting these old machines going, to keep me active during the winter. This time last winter, I had my seventh surgery, and was dependent on morphine! I can say working on this mill is a joy compared to that, and a work out to boot.
    Jayzus.... Yer a Helluva man, after all "Charlie Brown"!

    Got another member asking me for your email (PM-PM boxes always full as they tend to be) to guide him on a Modular-Module diode & clip restoration.

    Not mine to give-out, but my own email is up with PM under the user-ID click if you have the spare time left to point him to what he will be needing to know and do.

    ISTR some Devil or another tempted you into dragging home a right interesting radial DP as well?

    That one I'll surely be watching!


  12. #29
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    There are new people getting these old machines going, I think its best for the forum to work out problems in real time here. I know a lot has been covered before, but the photos are gone if they were on the bad bucket.
    There are many of the over 8000 Monarch ee lathes sitting in garages, old duffers bought 20yrs ago just because they could, or thinking they could make money, get it going, but they died, the family has to call someone to haul it away, there might even be an ap for that on their FooFone? Anyway, I posted a photo of a dump truck full of machines, including a late model Bridgeport, " The machine the does everything, but nothing really well", the new owner of the property paid to have that stuff hauled away!
    I think it may be interesting for newer craftsman see another machine being raised from the dead, the guy that sold me this is dumbfounded already.

    I know John Oder has talked about it a lot, more or less pushing the rust off with a scraper, its not that hard to do, just have to fiddle with the tool till you get the hang of it.
    So, heck ya, ask questions on the forum, then everyone benefits, and more ideas emerge.

    That drill has not happened just yet, the local prices of radial drill presses that are too big for your pickup have crashed, so, the price has to be good and
    include it sitting in my driveway! And upright!

  13. #30
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    Rolling right along on this project, the bearings are good in the dividing head, so I am going to give it some more attention, and time. The high quality cast iron has cleaned up remarkably, just showing some staining. I think it will be diffacult to tell it once was in very sad condition.




    The #10 vertical head attachment was completely full of grease, there is no damage to any critical parts or gears, there is either 8 or 10 Timken bearings in this thing. The quill has only 2" of travel, with what I would assume a pair of type 0 Timken bearings.



    Really simple quill feed, the back with the quill retracted. This stuff is heavy, perhaps close to 300lbs, the really heavy yoke part of the vertical attachment is still stuck on the machines overarms, I am headed out, and hope to get it loose this afternoon, its been cold.



    The scraped flange was pretty close to water tight!

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  15. #31
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    This machine has a broken clevis connected to the start-stop lever, the clevis located down in the main spindle drive gear box connects to the spindle start switch in the electrical compartment just below. This part has been broken for some time they simply wired in a push button bypassing the lever.


    The vertical bar at left is connected to the start lever, goes down to a rocker that operates the spindle brake and the broken switch clevis. The switch is a little complex mechanically , it also provides a detent for the heavy start lever. The switch upper left, was bypassed with the two blue wires.


    The broken clevis is bronze, looks like it is splined into the mechanism. I have heard of this problem from somewhere, probably here, I am going to try to fix it properly.
    The added start button was confusing. So what I thought was a clutch is a brake. I think the brake was added because there would be extended coast down time from the momentum of the heavy chain drive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    The broken clevis is bronze, looks like it is splined into the mechanism. I have heard of this problem from somewhere, probably here, I am going to try to fix it properly.
    May be no help atall. Not sure the shape of yer clevis.

    But there's 0.0850" thick, 3" wide, up to 24" long Ampco 18 alloy in as-continuous-cast surface finish spare for yah if it is any help.

    Some among us just have funny ideas as to which Alloys of Aluminium we can be bothered to set tool to. "Minorities" preference thing, mayhap?



    Bill

  17. #33
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    Thank you for the offer of material, I am hoping the part can be repaired. The part is hard to see, but I can reach it from the opposite side of the machine through the round hole the oil pump fits in, the clevis and its shaft is just above the oil level in the sump. Not sure if the clevis and shaft is one or two piece.
    Cam operated oil pump,

  18. #34
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    I run into the worst problem with the over arms, the photo shows a couple of holes someone drilled in the top of the machine for a on-off switch to replace the more difficult to fix, broken factory switch. One of the holes didn't have a bolt, water flowed in and rusted up the way too complicated over arm locking system, with the over arms locked.
    The arm locking system has a rack and pinion, pins with coarse left hand threads, pins to lock those pins, and more. All of that so both the front and rear of the arms lock within the machines casting. Every piece of that was a miserable battle to remove, and not break.
    I was able to slightly drift both arms with a large plastic lead shot hammer to my near exhaustion. I re-made my 6lb lead hammer I used for trueing multi piece crank shafts in the dark ages. This did the trick, the left arm is loose. Now, at least I can get one arm out, making more access to get the right one out, the arms are not rusted inside the hollow casting.
    That more simple part of the machine really sucked up hrs, I am in over 70hrs total, if I was fixing this for resale, that would not work out well.
    The last important area is the knee, I have managed to scrape the rust inching the knee to near its top of travel, making working on the knee easier, The construction of the knee is much different to K&T and others, I will try to get a photo looking up into it from down low, it seems to have separate compartments. The oil system is accessible up in where the lifting screw is, and the cross feed screw is visible also. Anyway so far every thing seems to be OK, I am going to test the knee under power soon, get it pumping oil.


    Lead saved the day.

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    I love seeing old iron brought back!!!! Great job. Wish I had a machine retirement community on the east coast. I'd bring em all home.

    What's the foil on the lead hammer for?

  21. #36
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    I made my hammer mold from a motorcycle cylinder sleeve, so I have to wrap it up with some foil and wire to keep the hot lead from leaking out. At first I used a tin can by punching a hole in the side for the handle, use a little foil and wire there, then peel the can off.

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    Gotcha. Thanks.

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    I have the diving head in good usable condition, I think it reflects what the mill will look like in a few weeks. The effect of the rust on the bright cast iron surfaces is not as bad as I thought it would be.



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    Snow and ice is slowing things down, the over arms are still stuck, but will move when the temperature is above 50f. So I pulled the ball crank, hand wheels, dials and clutches from the machine to clean up inside. These old mills are pretty complicated with a lot of parts related to the power feeds.

    Nothing damaged, but it was time consuming unsticking the sleeves and threaded parts. I used a propane torch and melting bees wax into the stuck parts to free them. The non precision machined and painted surfaces I used a 4" angle grinder with a soft wire brush to clean up. The dials, I scrubbed with a brass brush with the acetone and atf, then used scotchbrite trying to keep the numbers looking crisp.



    The war finish on the machine is pretty rough in places, I am working on those areas a little, I bought a big can of Bondo.




    Most mills use a long crank handle to move the knee, the handwheel moves the knee with remarkable ease on this machine, the small hand wheel is for the Y axis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Snow and ice is slowing things down, the over arms are still stuck, but will move when the temperature is above 50f. So I pulled the ball crank, hand wheels, dials and clutches from the machine to clean up inside. These old mills are pretty complicated with a lot of parts related to the power feeds.

    Nothing damaged, but it was time consuming unsticking the sleeves and threaded parts. I used a propane torch and melting bees wax into the stuck parts to free them. The non precision machined and painted surfaces I used a 4" angle grinder with a soft wire brush to clean up. The dials, I scrubbed with a brass brush with the acetone and atf, then used scotchbrite trying to keep the numbers looking crisp.



    The war finish on the machine is pretty rough in places, I am working on those areas a little, I bought a big can of Bondo.




    Most mills use a long crank handle to move the knee, the handwheel moves the knee with remarkable ease on this machine, the small hand wheel is for the Y axis.
    I been struggling to remove the hand crank for the table ( x-axis) and was wondering was what the first thing you had to remove to pull it apart I tryed pulling the pin but that didnt release anything. Any suggestions?


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