Wrestling with a decision to buy a KT 205-S12

bonestock · Mar 22, 2019

I've been in the market off and on for a little while looking for a decent KT horizontal in the #2 or #3 size a few hours from Atlanta. I've found one fairly close but a bit higher than I was expecting. I hate to post another "What's the value thread" but I wanted to get an idea of what I should expect these to run in the South-East US.

1964 S205 S-12 horizontal
includes vertical attachment
includes shaper attachment
includes arbor supports
fully functional rapids/feeds.
has DRO

They are firm at $5800 :nutter:

That seems about 1500-2000 more than I would expect to see. However all the prices on ebay and dealers seem to be overly inflated for the last 12-18 months too. Though I don't actually see them selling on ebay for those prices. Is the whole KT market just off their rocker with respect to pricing or is that the fair 2019 pricing for 40-60 year old machines?

Mebfab · Mar 22, 2019

The attachements raise the value. Vertical sorta rare. Shaper, that is very very rare.

bonestock · Mar 22, 2019

Yeah I've been hemming and hawing all day on it. I dont need it right now, but can really use it once I start in a few other projects.

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Ohio Mike · Mar 22, 2019

If this is the one I know about then you're not being fair to it. Its a universal and looks to be in awesome condition. And it has at least $3000 worth of accessories with it (one of which you don't mention). It could take years to collect all those things so if you want it you better go get it.

bonestock · Mar 23, 2019

Ohio Mike said:
If this is the one I know about then you're not being fair to it. Its a universal and looks to be in awesome condition. And it has at least $3000 worth of accessories with it (one of which you don't mention). It could take years to collect all those things so if you want it you better go get it.

Ohio Mike that's the kick in the pants I needed. Now I can tell my wife ... Mike made me do it.

bsg · Mar 23, 2019

bonestock said:
I've been in the market off and on for a little while looking for a decent KT horizontal in the #2 or #3 size a few hours from Atlanta. I've found one fairly close but a bit higher than I was expecting. I hate to post another "What's the value thread" but I wanted to get an idea of what I should expect these to run in the South-East US.

1964 S205 S-12 horizontal
includes vertical attachment
includes shaper attachment
includes arbor supports
fully functional rapids/feeds.
has DRO

They are firm at $5800 That seems about 1500-2000 more than I would expect to see. However all the prices on ebay and dealers seem to be overly inflated for the last 12-18 months too. Though I don't actually see them selling on ebay for those prices. Is the whole KT market just off their rocker with respect to pricing or is that the fair 2019 pricing for 40-60 year old machines?

Condition is everything, rare accessories are next! I have bought machines just to get the accessories that are near impossible to get! if it’s as nice as you say, not a bad deal, IMHO!

Kevin

P.S. please post pictures when you get the machine!

bonestock · Mar 23, 2019

bsg said:
Condition is everything, rare accessories are next! I have bought machines just to get the accessories that are near impossible to get! if it’s as nice as you say, not a bad deal, IMHO!

Kevin

P.S. please post pictures when you get the machine!

Will do. We're trying to align schedules so it looks like it may hit my floor near the end of April.
After talking with the seller he is going to throw in all of the cutters, arbors, holders, pretty much anything for the machine goes with it.

As Ohio Mike mentioned I forgot to list the low-lead attachment in my post.

My more pressing issue is finding a spot for it.

Hobby Shop · Mar 23, 2019

Make sure the LL has the 3 sets of worm/wheels and change gears. If it makes you feel better, I’ve seen the 5814 LL sell on eBay for $2k. The 5814 LL fits all horizontal mills from the 2CH and up.

Ohio Mike · Mar 23, 2019

I think you'll be very happy with this setup. I've regretted buying machines before but my biggest regrets are the machines I didn't buy

bonestock · Mar 25, 2019

I confirmed from the serial the LL attachment is a U-2877 made in Feb 1966. Sadly it has no change gears or worm gearing sets.

I am not sure what compatibility the 2877 has with the 5814 gears. I guess I'll be on the hunt for what I can round up. Perhaps I can find enough to make/reproduce what's missing. I just need to find a few or some drawings to reproduce the missing ones.

Hobby Shop · Mar 25, 2019

bonestock said:
I confirmed from the serial the LL attachment is a U-2877 made in Feb 1966. Sadly it has no change gears or worm gearing sets.

I am not sure what compatibility the 2877 has with the 5814 gears. I guess I'll be on the hunt for what I can round up. Perhaps I can find enough to make/reproduce what's missing. I just need to find a few or some drawings to reproduce the missing ones.

By any chance did you look inside the LL? Sometimes you get lucky and theres a set installed (hope for the 1:3 in it). Make sure it has the auxiliary shaft too, its the 6 spline shaft that runs the LL. If/when you get it, measure the center distance between the worm and wheel. I’m sure it takes 2H size worms/wheels & 10p change gears.

Hopefully, the guy is going to work with you on the price because without all the parts, the LL is useless. Even if you decide to make everything yourself....you’ll have $5-600 in material for the gears.

bonestock · Mar 25, 2019

Sadly the LL is bare inside -- I had him snap pics this morning of it.

It will be a nice conversation piece for a little while or an item to trade.
The seller does have several long shafts. One of which appears to be feed shafts to drive the LL. It also comes with a large bracket which seems to be a guide a one of the shafts.

Fal Grunt · Mar 25, 2019

bonestock said:
As Ohio Mike mentioned I forgot to list the low-lead attachment in my post.

That's a huge one to me...

bonestock · Mar 25, 2019

Fal Grunt said:
That's a huge one to me...

True, I’m learning the ins and outs of the KT valuation system. It seems the deal is relatively complete sans the worm and change gears needed for the low lead box. I’m sure with some time and effort I can source a few and rebuild the rest.

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Fal Grunt · Mar 25, 2019

That’s one where you might find them complete tomorrow, or in 30 years, or never.

ssbn641gold · Mar 26, 2019

Assuming that we're discussing the K&T that was listed on Ebay then $5800 was a more than fair price when you consider the overall condition of the mill, plus all of the accessories that were included with the machine. Like others here have already stated, the mills are easy to find. It's the accessories that are tough to come by. Those are what makes the entire package worth the money.

bonestock · Mar 27, 2019

ssbn641gold said:
Assuming that we're discussing the K&T that was listed on Ebay then $5800 was a more than fair price when you consider the overall condition of the mill, plus all of the accessories that were included with the machine. Like others here have already stated, the mills are easy to find. It's the accessories that are tough to come by. Those are what makes the entire package worth the money.

That would be the machine. While I have a general passing knowledge I'm not a KT aficionado but I am ramping up on them. Aside from this area of PM are there other forums, mailing lists, or groups I need to add to my trolling list? I'd like to outfit it with a dividing head at some point and keep an eye out for the elusive low-lead gear sets.

Fal Grunt · Mar 27, 2019

bonestock said:
That would be the machine. While I have a general passing knowledge I'm not a KT aficionado but I am ramping up on them. Aside from this area of PM are there other forums, mailing lists, or groups I need to add to my trolling list? I'd like to outfit it with a dividing head at some point and keep an eye out for the elusive low-lead gear sets.

Download all the available material from Vintage Machinery and give it a good read.

Wrestling with a decision to buy a KT 205-S12

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