WTB-Or Need to Make An Overarm Bracket for a 2MH Cincinnati

alskdjfhg · Mar 4, 2018

Got the 2MH Cincinnati wired in a few weeks ago, machine didn't seem to have any problems, speeds and feed all work. Can't figure out how to engage the rapids, but that's an issue for a different thread.

I've got a bunch of NMTB arbors and in a bid to make the machine more useful, I'd like to get an arbor support for it or make one.

Not too afraid of making one, just a dovetail, bore, bearing and someway to lubricate the arbor. Right?

I'm thinking making it out of aluminum, lighter to install. The dovetail shouldn't be too bad, but I've been stumped on finding the location for the bore so that it's inline with the spindle.

At first I was just going to machine the dovetail, install on the overall, lock it down then use the rack mechanism to feed the arbor support blank onto a center/spotting drill thus giving me the bore center.

I'd like to get the location as close as possible, and doing it that way seems like it would be close, but not perfect.

So how would ya'll go about this? Do it the way I described then, then install a known straight bar in the machine, indicate that and shim/machine to fit? Toolmakers buttons?

Got access to this mill, Wells-Index 645 and a Moore #3 jig bore.

Mike C. · Mar 4, 2018

Send me a rough drawing of the dovetail width and depth, and also the distance from the bottom of the dovetail to the spindle center. I have a Cincy arbor support at work that doesn't fit the 2MI. Useless paperweight and I don't even have that much paper.

As for rapid and/or feeds not working, make sure the column oil levels are correct. The feeds do not work if the oil is low. Rapid is real simple. Click the feed handle in to the desired direction and pull up on the rapid lever.

Mebfab · Mar 4, 2018

I have a set of 3 on ebay. They are all aluminum. My van norman from the 50s uses aluminum outboard as well.

alskdjfhg · Mar 4, 2018

Mike C. said:
Send me a rough drawing of the dovetail width and depth, and also the distance from the bottom of the dovetail to the spindle center. I have a Cincy arbor support at work that doesn't fit the 2MI. Useless paperweight and I don't even have that much paper.

As for rapid and/or feeds not working, make sure the column oil levels are correct. The feeds do not work if the oil is low. Rapid is real simple. Click the feed handle in to the desired direction and pull up on the rapid lever.

I don't have the spindle distance, but the dovetail is about 4.5 at the wide size and 3.375 at the narrow end. I had measure them a while back, so that should be pretty close.

alskdjfhg · Mar 4, 2018

Mebfab said:
I have a set of 3 on ebay. They are all aluminum. My van norman from the 50s uses aluminum outboard as well.

Got a link?

Mebfab · Mar 4, 2018

Cinncinati 2MI 2ML horizontal overarm supports | eBay

2mi, so might not be it. Pic of machines manual in listing for reference.

alskdjfhg · Mar 4, 2018

Mebfab said:
Cinncinati 2MI 2ML horizontal overarm supports | eBay

2mi, so might not be it. Pic of machines manual in listing for reference.

That's what I'm looking for, but I'd guess that the 2MH and 2MI overarms wont match up. The overarms looks slightly different.

Dan from Oakland · Mar 5, 2018

If ya end up making one- fit your dovetail and rough bore the arbor hole. N0w you have two options.

1) turn up a disc bigger than the hole you drilled with a tqapped hole in the center.
Mount the disc on the inboard side of your arbor support with a bolt thru to the front side of the arbor support with a strap across the hole so the disc is held in place. Mount the arbor support on the machine and indicate the od of the disc 0/0 using the spindle. tighten the bolt to keep the disc in place. Remove arbor support, move it to your"other mill" indicate the disc back in and bore the hole.

2) mount the arbor support on the mill, snug up the dovetail, mount a boring head in the mill spindle. Clamp a push device on the table of the mill and use the y axis of the mill to push the arbor support along the overarm to bore the support.

I've used both methods to make steady rests for gear hobbers to cut long shafts and they both work well.

cmike · Mar 5, 2018

C Mike

Try Parts N Parts @ 419.331.5658 or Indudtrial Surplus @ 860.796.4655. I do have a print on how to make it, just got to fine it.

Regards, Mike

alskdjfhg · Mar 6, 2018

Dan from Oakland said:
If ya end up making one- fit your dovetail and rough bore the arbor hole. N0w you have two options.

1) turn up a disc bigger than the hole you drilled with a tqapped hole in the center.
Mount the disc on the inboard side of your arbor support with a bolt thru to the front side of the arbor support with a strap across the hole so the disc is held in place. Mount the arbor support on the machine and indicate the od of the disc 0/0 using the spindle. tighten the bolt to keep the disc in place. Remove arbor support, move it to your"other mill" indicate the disc back in and bore the hole.

2) mount the arbor support on the mill, snug up the dovetail, mount a boring head in the mill spindle. Clamp a push device on the table of the mill and use the y axis of the mill to push the arbor support along the overarm to bore the support.

I've used both methods to make steady rests for gear hobbers to cut long shafts and they both work well.

Method one sounds like using a big home made toolmakers button, I like it.

cmike said:
Try Parts N Parts @ 419.331.5658 or Indudtrial Surplus @ 860.796.4655. I do have a print on how to make it, just got to fine it.

Regards, Mike

A print would be awesome, I think I'm leaning towords making one at this point tbh.

Mike C. · Mar 10, 2018

"I don't have the spindle distance, but the dovetail is about 4.5 at the wide size and 3.375 at the narrow end. I had measure them a while back, so that should be pretty close. "

The one I have is about 3 1/8 on the small end, 4 1/4 on the big end and 6 3/16 form the bottom flat to the spindle center.

cmike · Mar 11, 2018

Sorry, somehow a old record from ancestry made it to reply.

alskdjfhg · Mar 11, 2018

Mike C. said:
"I don't have the spindle distance, but the dovetail is about 4.5 at the wide size and 3.375 at the narrow end. I had measure them a while back, so that should be pretty close. "

The one I have is about 3 1/8 on the small end, 4 1/4 on the big end and 6 3/16 form the bottom flat to the spindle center.

That sound about right

cmike said:
Sorry, somehow a old record from ancestry made it to reply.

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, would you mind posting the dimensions so we can double check if MikeC's bracket is a match?

johnoder · Mar 12, 2018

Looks jest like my thirties 2M I had over 40 years ago - a least in the spindle nose area

alskdjfhg · Mar 12, 2018

johnoder said:
Looks jest like my thirties 2M I had over 40 years ago - a least in the spindle nose area

They do look very similar, some of the handles look identical.

Did yours use a reversible motor starter that you changed spindle rotation with a little lever? Not sure if that makes sense.

But I had to butcher the original wiring a long time ago and lost the picture I took of how it was set up originally. Have the mill running right now by bypassing the rats nest that is the original electrical stuff for now, but would like to get it set up right.

Havent had much luck finding a wiring diagram.

johnoder · Mar 13, 2018

Don't recall, Matt, so looked in the '31 "manual" that covers most mills they made. Big ones - like the old whopper #5 you looked at some years back - have spindle reverse on the left face of column. Don't know if you will find such on the 2MH

M design goes back to the teens with the M being in my '23 catalog. It was major improved once to replace plain bearings with Timkens, and apparently again to render the higher speed MH. Less striking improvements along the way included putting a motor in the base and enclosing the drive belts/silent chain.

I'll see if my remaining reversing starter is a size 1, and if so you may need same

ON EDIT - if needed for this or other, reversing starter is Size 1, AB, 505 BOD 23 good for 7 1/2 HP at 240 three phase. It has the overload block for W style heaters which are fairly easy to come by. Currently has W62, while 5HP needs W56

alskdjfhg · Mar 13, 2018

johnoder said:
Don't recall, Matt, so looked in the '31 "manual" that covers most mills they made. Big ones - like the old whopper #5 you looked at some years back - have spindle reverse on the left face of column. Don't know if you will find such on the 2MH

M design goes back to the teens with the M being in my '23 catalog. It was major improved once to replace plain bearings with Timkens, and apparently again to render the higher speed MH. Less striking improvements along the way included putting a motor in the base and enclosing the drive belts/silent chain.

I'll see if my remaining reversing starter is a size 1, and if so you may need same

ON EDIT - if needed for this or other, reversing starter is Size 1, AB, 505 BOD 23 good for 7 1/2 HP at 240 three phase. It has the overload block for W style heaters which are fairly easy to come by. Currently has W62, while 5HP needs W56

I've got it wired up with my 100amp disconnect. So very unOHSA, and eventually I need that disconect for the high amperage machines. I think the stuff that's on this mill would work, if I knew how to wire it up.

But, the 440 V motor on the HBM is bad, so I was thinking about putting a 7 1/2 on it. So yeah I could use a reversing motor starter.

Mike C. · Mar 13, 2018

This is your arbor support. Let me see if I can liberate it from work and we'll figure shipping. It's cast iron, but still not very heavy. Wouldn't want to one hand it, but it's no problem to hoist up to chest level.

alskdjfhg · Mar 15, 2018

Mike C. said:
This is your arbor support. Let me see if I can liberate it from work and we'll figure shipping. It's cast iron, but still not very heavy. Wouldn't want to one hand it, but it's no problem to hoist up to chest level.

Ok cool. If they won't let it go, a picture of what the real one looks like will help it I have to make one.

WTB-Or Need to Make An Overarm Bracket for a 2MH Cincinnati

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