14/40 cnc lathe/ mill / centroid/ clearpath/ ballscrews

Thissideup · Oct 15, 2019

In a previous post you may have seen my 14/40 lathe that I did a 3 phase 3hp vfd setup on. If not, here’s a link to a video YouTube
Now I’m on to the next steps. The plan is to convert this machine using centroid acorn and clear path servos. I will be using a mini mill similar to the grizzly g0705 which I will be attaching to the end of the bed by its mast. I will not be using the milling table but rather the lathes saddle and cross slide which I will build a custom t slot top for. This gets me a mill and lathe out of one control system with one axis to spare for future. This machine will be used for aluminum almost exclusively. Now, this is where it gets tricky. I plan to retain all the manual functions of the lathe, feeds/ speeds etc. From what I understand putting a ball screw in the cross slide means it won’t hold position very well and replacing the lead screw for the saddle eliminate manual threading so..: I have decided to hybrid this machine using leads and ball screws. For the saddle I will attach the ball screw to the back side and for the cross feed I will actually mill a second dove tail into it and mount the custom t slot table to it that way. By locking the two tables I’ll be able to use the cross feeds lead screw for manual movements and by unlocking them the ball screw can move only the top table for cnc operations. This will also give me a greater range of motion on the cross slide. But though I have the rough mechanics figured out, I still have a few questions.
First with motors powered off, will the ball screws back feed on their lead screw easily when I’m pushing it around manually or will they add significant resistance? If thy will feed easily I’ll leave them connected but if not I will devise a quick coupler for them.

Second, I plan to run clear path servo motors but I have no idea how to size them, anybody have any suggestions for a 14/40?

Thissideup · Oct 15, 2019

Thissideup said:
In a previous post you may have seen my 14/40 lathe that I did a 3 phase 3hp vfd setup on. If not, here’s a link to a video YouTube
Now I’m on to the next steps. The plan is to convert this machine using centroid acorn and clear path servos. I will be using a mini mill similar to the grizzly g0705 which I will be attaching to the end of the bed by its mast. I will not be using the milling table but rather the lathes saddle and cross slide which I will build a custom t slot top for. This gets me a mill and lathe out of one control system with one axis to spare for future. This machine will be used for aluminum almost exclusively. Now, this is where it gets tricky. I plan to retain all the manual functions of the lathe, feeds/ speeds etc. From what I understand putting a ball screw in the cross slide means it won’t hold position very well and replacing the lead screw for the saddle eliminate manual threading so..: I have decided to hybrid this machine using leads and ball screws. For the saddle I will attach the ball screw to the back side and for the cross feed I will actually mill a second dove tail into it and mount the custom t slot table to it that way. By locking the two tables I’ll be able to use the cross feeds lead screw for manual movements and by unlocking them the ball screw can move only the top table for cnc operations. This will also give me a greater range of motion on the cross slide. But though I have the rough mechanics figured out, I still have a few questions.
First with motors powered off, will the ball screws back feed on their lead screw easily when I’m pushing it around manually or will they add significant resistance? If thy will feed easily I’ll leave them connected but if not I will devise a quick coupler for them.

Second, I plan to run clear path servo motors but I have no idea how to size them, anybody have any suggestions for a 14/40?

moonlight machine · Oct 15, 2019

Thissideup said:
In a previous post you may have seen my 14/40 lathe that I did a 3 phase 3hp vfd setup on. If not, here’s a link to a video YouTube
Now I’m on to the next steps. The plan is to convert this machine using centroid acorn and clear path servos. I will be using a mini mill similar to the grizzly g0705 which I will be attaching to the end of the bed by its mast. I will not be using the milling table but rather the lathes saddle and cross slide which I will build a custom t slot top for. This gets me a mill and lathe out of one control system with one axis to spare for future. This machine will be used for aluminum almost exclusively. Now, this is where it gets tricky. I plan to retain all the manual functions of the lathe, feeds/ speeds etc. From what I understand putting a ball screw in the cross slide means it won’t hold position very well and replacing the lead screw for the saddle eliminate manual threading so..: I have decided to hybrid this machine using leads and ball screws. For the saddle I will attach the ball screw to the back side and for the cross feed I will actually mill a second dove tail into it and mount the custom t slot table to it that way. By locking the two tables I’ll be able to use the cross feeds lead screw for manual movements and by unlocking them the ball screw can move only the top table for cnc operations. This will also give me a greater range of motion on the cross slide. But though I have the rough mechanics figured out, I still have a few questions.
First with motors powered off, will the ball screws back feed on their lead screw easily when I’m pushing it around manually or will they add significant resistance? If thy will feed easily I’ll leave them connected but if not I will devise a quick coupler for them.

Second, I plan to run clear path servo motors but I have no idea how to size them, anybody have any suggestions for a 14/40?

Yes the ball screws will move. You are reinventing the wheel. This has been done before. Are you planning to to use it as a live axis on the lathe or you going to put a little mill table on it as well. Has this been designed in the pub?

Vancbiker · Oct 15, 2019

Thissideup said:
In a previous post you may have seen my 14/40 lathe that I did a 3 phase 3hp vfd setup on...................

If any here did, they probably threw up some.

Discussion of a homeshop "CNC" would be much better taken to CNC zone forum. We hope to keep the bar a bit higher here.

Thissideup · Oct 15, 2019

My apology for wasting all your time. The problem I’m am trying to solve is I do 4 kinds of work for the product I manufacture. Each requires a manual lathe, a manual mill, a cnc lathe and a cnc mill. Each would run a month per year and take up space that costs money. I want one machine that will do all 4 actions. Mill at one end, lathe at the other, one software, one control system with probing for prototyping. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to economically and efficiently solve a problem. I’ll build this for under 20 grand and it will pay for its self in 1 year. I’ll takr my chat elsewhere. Call me stupid but I’m not working for a pay check.

memphisjed · Oct 15, 2019

I feel the need to try and find the corners to cut to fit the budget. All designs have this phase.
Trying to attach the mill to lathe, maybe like a 3 in 1 machine?, has yet to be perfected.. why I do not know, but something must be harder than meets the eye.
I am not anti stepper like many folks, servos are better at lots of things; your machines will not benefit from them over good steppers and drives. Your ball screw mounts/bearings have to be a level up to withstand the high rpm a servo can give.... Clearpath (not a bad product) in the range you are looking at cost more, and can not get that much faster than a sized stepper.
You can 'disable' motors in the software, which shuts off the enable pin to drives. Not quite free spinning, but close enough for rock and roll manual work. A coupling would be a challenge, play at the very start of your drive system never turns out well.
You can use the same controller, drives, vfd, and power supplies with some creative use of massive plugs (automation direct, digi-key, etc sell 64 pin industrial plugs), the vfd would require a separate plug. Each machine has a junction box to accept the other end of the plug. Not sure of centroids, likely able to have multiple machines defined in the controller. This will save the large ticket item of controller and the multiple drives, power supplies, vfd, relays for stuff...

metlcutr55 · Oct 17, 2019

as to better question on another forum, absolutely.

as to piece parts id be looking at mach4 or uccnc, decent steppers. id also consider anti backlash nuts over ball screws. spend just what you need to.

as to the wisdom of doing something oddball with what you have, I can say this: a customer of mine 20+ years ago had a large manual planer mill. lots of wear, lots of backlash. since he was a machine builder and had tons of old electronics, 1st generation cnc controls and motors etc around he cnc'd this planer mill. im not even sure he had memory for program storage, they may have had to been typed in ea time, this was about the time of punch tapes and im not sure he had a reader hooked up. he made a lot of money with that machine, even tho there was a a lot of pd&fa time involved, no one else around could fit parts that big on the machine, and the fellow who ran it, ran it well and knew the machine. good luck with your project.

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