20 year old HAAS machines need advice

Howdy and Happy Friday to you all,
There are 2 machines here at work that I need some advice on how to deal with them. I feel like the situation is unique so I guess I will need to explain that too. This isn't necessarily a normal machine shop/manufacturing environment. I work for a mid to large size university in the engineering school. I have been offered 2 Haas machines that have been sitting for 15 years, one is a VF2 and the other is an SL20 they are from '99 and '01. These machines have been on campus in another place....sitting idle for 15 years.

The controls are old, they have the old disk slots on them. I don't see any place to plug in a USB or anything. In order for these machines to be valuable to us here they need to be user friendly with modern programming. I could use them and program with G-code but that doesn't do a whole lot for showing students how to use modern CAM software.

Can I get new modern control upgrades to these machines? What is the cost if so? Is it worth it to even mess around with these machines? I don't necessarily NEED these machines but they would greatly modernize our shop and increase our capabilities. I already have a CNC lathe and mill in my shop. The university here is under a serious budget crunch and money is tight. Does Haas have a trade in policy? Asking for 20k for control upgrades is a lot easier than asking for 50k for a new machine. I have 2 calls in to Haas over the last 2 days and no response, which also worries me. That's why I'm posting this here. I feel like I will get a better and quicker response.

Yes, you can get the controls upgraded, and may even be eligible for a discount if these are in a university setting. But I'd confirm that the basic hardware is in good shape before spending any money, including rigging them.

Regarding no call backs from your HFO, sometimes you have to call and ask for "Sales", and after you get a person explain nicely that you need to speak to a human (not voicemail) in Service.

vonblowseph said:

Howdy and Happy Friday to you all,
There are 2 machines here at work that I need some advice on how to deal with them. I feel like the situation is unique so I guess I will need to explain that too. This isn't necessarily a normal machine shop/manufacturing environment. I work for a mid to large size university in the engineering school. I have been offered 2 Haas machines that have been sitting for 15 years, one is a VF2 and the other is an SL20 they are from '99 and '01. These machines have been on campus in another place....sitting idle for 15 years.

The controls are old, they have the old disk slots on them. I don't see any place to plug in a USB or anything. In order for these machines to be valuable to us here they need to be user friendly with modern programming. I could use them and program with G-code but that doesn't do a whole lot for showing students how to use modern CAM software.

Can I get new modern control upgrades to these machines? What is the cost if so? Is it worth it to even mess around with these machines? I don't necessarily NEED these machines but they would greatly modernize our shop and increase our capabilities. I already have a CNC lathe and mill in my shop. The university here is under a serious budget crunch and money is tight. Does Haas have a trade in policy? Asking for 20k for control upgrades is a lot easier than asking for 50k for a new machine. I have 2 calls in to Haas over the last 2 days and no response, which also worries me. That's why I'm posting this here. I feel like I will get a better and quicker response.

Click to expand...

We have a '97 VF-1 here, and about 4-5 years ago we had the local HFO come and put the latest control on it (at the time) and it was around $10k.
I can get a closer number if you need it from the boss, but it wasn't anywhere near $20k

Volitan said:

We have a '97 VF-1 here, and about 4-5 years ago we had the local HFO come and out the latest control on it (at the time) and it was around $10k.
I can get a closer number if you need it from the boss, but it wasn't anywhere near $20k

Click to expand...

Not too long after you had your machine upgraded, Haas bumped the price up to about double what it had been. At least one thread about it at the time, and it pissed some folks off.

I see absolutely no reason to upgrade the control. I have machines of that vintage, up to 2020 machines. I see very little improvement in functionality or ease of use... if anything I prefer the older controls.

There are some USB conversions that I’ve read about. Personally I just transfer programs to my older Haas machines using RS232 from a dedicated computer. Not hard to do, and allows me to run ridiculously long programs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

G00 Proto said:

I see absolutely no reason to upgrade the control. I have machines of that vintage, up to 2020 machines. I see very little improvement in functionality or ease of use... if anything I prefer the older controls.

There are some USB conversions that I’ve read about. Personally I just transfer programs to my older Haas machines using RS232 from a dedicated computer. Not hard to do, and allows me to run ridiculously long programs.

Click to expand...

I did the USB replacement for both my ~2000 Haas mills, it was worth it. I don't usually run really long programs, but have used drip feed those few times.

FWIW, I agree about preferring the old controls, but that's not really appropriate when you're trying to instruct students. You should have current tech available for them, as that's (most likely) what they're use when they leave Uni.

Milland said:

Not too long after you had your machine upgraded, Haas bumped the price up to about double what it had been. At least one thread about it at the time, and it pissed some folks off.

Click to expand...

oofah... If the price was double not sure we would have done it.

G00 Proto said:

I see absolutely no reason to upgrade the control. I have machines of that vintage, up to 2020 machines. I see very little improvement in functionality or ease of use... if anything I prefer the older controls.

There are some USB conversions that I’ve read about. Personally I just transfer programs to my older Haas machines using RS232 from a dedicated computer. Not hard to do, and allows me to run ridiculously long programs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

If it were a production environment I would agree. I know of at least 2 different shops still using floppies on older Hass's and making money.
This is a university environment though. I would want to be taught on the latest, not 20 year old stuff.

Volitan said:

oofah... If the price was double not sure we would have done it.

Click to expand...

Post #283 from this page (whole thread is a lot longer and spans ~two years):

Obsolete processor board?

Milland said:

Post #283 from this page (whole thread is a lot longer and spans ~two years):

Obsolete processor board?

Click to expand...

Wow! Thanks for pointing that out. Big difference

If you are just teaching, leave the control alone. It is pretty easy to go from one Haas to another. Plus you don't want to spend a lot of money on something that kids are likely to destroy.

The floppy drive can be replaced with a USB converter drive that emulates a floppy drive. I got one off Ebay a few years back. However, you do have to jump through a few hoops to use it, since it replaces the single floppy drive with maybe 99 virtual ones.

I couldn't rely on my conventional floppy drive to read a disk without spoiling it, so at least I have access if I need it. However, I have the 16 meg memory option, and WiFi connection via a Moxa Nport, so I've never had to drip feed a program yet. Takes quite a while to download a large program via wifi as a 1996 machine doesn't have a very high transfer rate by (emulated) RS 232.

I'd hate to actually have to use a floppy. Typically, I have to change a program two or three times right off the bat, so I'd hate to have try to do this with floppies or even a USB drive. I much prefer the Moxa Nport and WiFi.

Why not teach the use of older and newer controls. 'I'm sure in the real world
there are more older machines than newer.I have 3 machines from early 80's
two from late 90's and 2 from 2018.

Volitan said:

If it were a production environment I would agree. I know of at least 2 different shops still using floppies on older Hass's and making money.
This is a university environment though. I would want to be taught on the latest, not 20 year old stuff.

Click to expand...

We use a Titan DNC to send programs from USB to the machine through the RS232 no biggie. FYI the latest Haas stuff is 20+ years old. They haven't really done anything besides put fancier monitors on them since inception.

id agree with above, newer controllers come with a few more visual aids, but nothing per the controller side that stands out to justify the cost.
work with what you have, they will learn more the hard way then the easy way.

vonblowseph said:

snip

The controls are old, they have the old disk slots on them. I don't see any place to plug in a USB or anything. In order for these machines to be valuable to us here they need to be user friendly with modern programming. I could use them and program with G-code but that doesn't do a whole lot for showing students how to use modern CAM software.

snip

Click to expand...

Unless you're referring to conversational programming on the control, modern CAM software involves post processers that create G-code programs that get transferred to the machine tools. The control on the machine won't really impact that process beyond knowing what codes the machine can or can't handle.

Welcome to the forum! A lot to unpack here IMO. I'm an Adjunct and been an instructor for 30+ besides the day job. Definitely many ways to put some lipstick and rouge on this thing. IT means being creative, and I am sure you know that lesson. ;-)
My 3 cents is there are options but it really depends on scope, time, and budget. I'm a bit rushed today but had to post up something ;-)
a) Run them as-is- We have a 98 VF w/ original controls. We use Solidworks and F360. for CAM we've used both HSM and the solidworks flavor. Modern CAM. Modern designs. We even run in 5 axis. The magic is in the post-processor. $24 for a USB conversion on the floppy.

b) You w/ Russ? Could you get a local Co. to sponsor the upgrades? You must have some bigger relationships w/ local industry. A stream of local engineers and Haas Ops ready folks could be of interest? Find those business that could use a write-off, want to help, and are part of the area and community. A thought?

c)And there are educational discounts. But you should try to contact Corporate in CA (Where I would start). Local HFO's are number$ driven.

Back to scope, time and budget... Scope: What is the end goal- CAM instruction or Manufacturing in a CNC machining environment? Will they be 80% in the CAM assignments and 20% loading a USB stick to make a Delrin widget? Then use them as is IMO.

Budget wise- Probably better to have the HFO come in to prep, connect and spin them up. There are also 'other' CNC repair houses that can come and work on these. Fluids dumped, lines blown out, pumps checked, seals and gaskets, Just things the Son and I did and learned along the way.

Peace and TGIf!

vonblowseph said:

Howdy and Happy Friday to you all,
There are 2 machines here at work that I need some advice on how to deal with them. I feel like the situation is unique so I guess I will need to explain that too. This isn't necessarily a normal machine shop/manufacturing environment. I work for a mid to large size university in the engineering school. I have been offered 2 Haas machines that have been sitting for 15 years, one is a VF2 and the other is an SL20 they are from '99 and '01. These machines have been on campus in another place....sitting idle for 15 years.

The controls are old, they have the old disk slots on them. I don't see any place to plug in a USB or anything. In order for these machines to be valuable to us here they need to be user friendly with modern programming. I could use them and program with G-code but that doesn't do a whole lot for showing students how to use modern CAM software.

Can I get new modern control upgrades to these machines? What is the cost if so? Is it worth it to even mess around with these machines? I don't necessarily NEED these machines but they would greatly modernize our shop and increase our capabilities. I already have a CNC lathe and mill in my shop. The university here is under a serious budget crunch and money is tight. Does Haas have a trade in policy? Asking for 20k for control upgrades is a lot easier than asking for 50k for a new machine. I have 2 calls in to Haas over the last 2 days and no response, which also worries me. That's why I'm posting this here. I feel like I will get a better and quicker response.

Click to expand...

Wow!
Thanks a lot...
Great responses here. Really appreciate it.
There is gonna be some time to get all this worked out. I will take possession of the machines by springtime.
They will be housed in storage until we can make room for them.
Just wasn't sure if they were worth paying the riggers to haul them to the storage space or straight to the scrap yard.
kidding....

countryguy said:

Welcome to the forum! A lot to unpack here IMO. I'm an Adjunct and been an instructor for 30+ besides the day job. Definitely many ways to put some lipstick and rouge on this thing. IT means being creative, and I am sure you know that lesson. ;-)
My 3 cents is there are options but it really depends on scope, time, and budget. I'm a bit rushed today but had to post up something ;-)
a) Run them as-is- We have a 98 VF w/ original controls. We use Solidworks and F360. for CAM we've used both HSM and the solidworks flavor. Modern CAM. Modern designs. We even run in 5 axis. The magic is in the post-processor. $24 for a USB conversion on the floppy.

b) You w/ Russ? Could you get a local Co. to sponsor the upgrades? You must have some bigger relationships w/ local industry. A stream of local engineers and Haas Ops ready folks could be of interest? Find those business that could use a write-off, want to help, and are part of the area and community. A thought?

c)And there are educational discounts. But you should try to contact Corporate in CA (Where I would start). Local HFO's are number$ driven.

Back to scope, time and budget... Scope: What is the end goal- CAM instruction or Manufacturing in a CNC machining environment? Will they be 80% in the CAM assignments and 20% loading a USB stick to make a Delrin widget? Then use them as is IMO.

Budget wise- Probably better to have the HFO come in to prep, connect and spin them up. There are also 'other' CNC repair houses that can come and work on these. Fluids dumped, lines blown out, pumps checked, seals and gaskets, Just things the Son and I did and learned along the way.

Peace and TGIf!

Click to expand...

Yo Countryguy,
you are pretty right on with yer response.
I can tell that you understand the environment that i'm working in.
Yes, I'm with the Russ College.
Definitely a lot of what I would consider politics to this type work environment. I end up wearing a lot of hats here and it takes a lot of patience that I don't always have. My favorite hat to wear is machinist but, it seems like I don't get to wear it as much as I would like.
Thanks the input

I run a 2000 model SL10 and a 2019 ST15 with the nexgen controls and can say first hand that you do not need to upgrade the controls on the older Haas machines ,,, yes the newer controls have a few things like the USB that is nice to have but the older controls work great and well do just fine for teaching or making custom parts ,,

students getting out of a school and looking for jobs are going to run into more shops running older machine than shops running brand new machine ,,, why not teach them one older machines?