200,000 holes!
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 90

Thread: 200,000 holes!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    71
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default 200,000 holes!

    For an upcoming project, I need to make 200,000 2.5mm thru holes in an approximately 5' square piece of G10, .2in thick. (That's POINT 2 thick - ninja edit)

    The weapon of choice is a Thermwood router and the software would be FeatureCAM.

    Not being all that familiar with the material, and for the sake of starting somewhere, I told FeatureCAM the material was "plastic" and that I wanted 3000 RPM and it gave me 4.22IPM as a feed. I called a 3/32 drill bit and the software said .0938 peck in a chip break cycle.

    Should I peck more? Less? Do those speeds/feeds sound like a reasonable starting point? (I will be given some material to experiment on).

    Also, I'm thinking with that many holes, drill wear/breakage will be a factor. My first thought was to program the holes in sections/quadrants (and since the entire piece of material will be Swiss cheese-ed, it looks like it's going to involve moving whatever clamping contraption I can concoct). That would allow me to restart a section, rather than start from Hole one, all over again....especially when the drill breaks on hole number 199,999!

    Given that I'm going to need to move clamps around, I'm pretty sold on the quadrant idea, but can I refine it further? I'm not sure if the Thermwood will allow you to search/start from a line number - if it does, could maybe I coordinate line numbers with holes, so that I can start somewhere in the vicinity of where the drill went south....or the power went out....or whatever.


    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Aberdeen, UK
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1635
    Likes (Received)
    2081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheeler View Post
    For an upcoming project, I need to make 200,000 2.5mm thru holes in an approximately 5' square piece of G10, 2in thick.

    The weapon of choice is a Thermwood router and the software would be FeatureCAM.

    Not being all that familiar with the material, and for the sake of starting somewhere, I told FeatureCAM the material was "plastic" and that I wanted 3000 RPM and it gave me 4.22IPM as a feed. I called a 3/32 drill bit and the software said .0938 peck in a chip break cycle.

    Should I peck more? Less? Do those speeds/feeds sound like a reasonable starting point? (I will be given some material to experiment on).

    Also, I'm thinking with that many holes, drill wear/breakage will be a factor. My first thought was to program the holes in sections/quadrants (and since the entire piece of material will be Swiss cheese-ed, it looks like it's going to involve moving whatever clamping contraption I can concoct). That would allow me to restart a section, rather than start from Hole one, all over again....especially when the drill breaks on hole number 199,999!

    Given that I'm going to need to move clamps around, I'm pretty sold on the quadrant idea, but can I refine it further? I'm not sure if the Thermwood will allow you to search/start from a line number - if it does, could maybe I coordinate line numbers with holes, so that I can start somewhere in the vicinity of where the drill went south....or the power went out....or whatever.


    Thoughts?
    Does your router have a toolchanger?

    Featurecam can do basic tool life management - switch to a different tool after x number of minutes.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,677
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1117
    Likes (Received)
    1737

    Default

    Both your programming ideas are solid. G10/FR4 is a fiberglass laminate. It is going to be brutal on your drills. Even carbide.
    I did a job out of it once, but that was years ago so I don't remember much.

  4. Likes BT Fabrication liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,593
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    356
    Likes (Received)
    1881

    Default

    A ratio of 20 is deep hole drilling territory
    how it would perform on the material in question I do not know

    Peter

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    RC, CA
    Posts
    2,187
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    223
    Likes (Received)
    472

    Default

    200,000 holes, pecking 2" deep? In G-10? (It's got glass in it)

    Rough guess is 3-1/2 months running 24/7, based on a minute a hole. Chip break wouldn't be sufficient, I don't think. You're gonna need a full retract to clear the chips.

    I'd think a diamond gundrill, and compressed air thru the tool to clear chips, would be the only practical solution. Which probably requires a different spindle.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    709
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    174
    Likes (Received)
    504

    Default

    At 200k holes I would be contacting some drill manufacturers. OSG used to make some really good plastic tools for CFRP, but I'm sure you can find more options as well.

    For that awful G10, you might want a dreamer or something unusual. This is going to take a lot of time, and burn up a lot of tooling. Having the right tool is going to pay off pretty quick. You need something specific for your application.

    A good sales rep can find the right tool and give you all of the parameters you need to make it work.

  8. Likes mhajicek, Squidmaster23 liked this post
  9. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    2,900
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    513
    Likes (Received)
    896

    Default

    Talk to manufacturers of circuit board drills- PCBA fabs are made from G10 or G10 like material. Fabs are still cut out with routers and there is still a fair amount of through hole board technology out there.

  10. Likes JohnEvans liked this post
  11. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    71
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Does your router have a toolchanger?
    Sadly, no.

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    71
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wesg View Post
    200,000 holes, pecking 2" deep?

    DOH! I missed the decimal point in front of the depth dimension! The comma threw me off! Crap!

    I fixed it!

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    71
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    It's ".2" thick. I'm an idiot.

  14. Likes michiganbuck liked this post
  15. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Aberdeen, UK
    Posts
    4,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1635
    Likes (Received)
    2081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheeler View Post
    Sadly, no.
    Well, I assume it has the ability to use more than one tool offset? (I know nothing about your machine, sorry)

    As long as it can do multiple tool offsets and your post can handle manual toolchanges, the tool life feature in featurecam should still help you avoid splitting the hole pattern up.

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    SWITZERLAND
    Posts
    1,087
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    133
    Likes (Received)
    441

    Default

    Water jet. Give it to a water-jet specialist.

  17. Likes mhajicek, BT Fabrication liked this post
  18. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    71
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    Water jet. Give it to a water-jet specialist.
    I thought about that. Haven't looked into it further, yet. Asked one place about laser drilling and they said it was way too big.

  19. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    71
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Well, I assume it has the ability to use more than one tool offset? (I know nothing about your machine, sorry)
    I don't know all that much about it, myself! The current operator is retiring, so I'll be taking it over.

    I assume it does have the ability to use multiple work offsets, so that might be a very good way to break the pattern into manageable chunks and/or find a place to restart, should I need to.

  20. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    SWITZERLAND
    Posts
    1,087
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    133
    Likes (Received)
    441

    Default

    Look, the water jet will leave relatively round holes, rather straight (cylindric). If you need them within tighter tolerance, a second operation might become necessary. I’m thinking of grinding laps you can do with the router, something fast on it like a Dremel with a corundum stone.

  21. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    34

    Default

    Hmmm! 2.5 mm holes 50 mm deep spaced with a web of about .9 mm. G10 (circuit boards) are normally drilled with short carbide drills. thin stuff ... 1.5 to 3 mm board.
    50 mm is 20X dia so easily qualifies for a gun drill. G10 is pretty abrasive since it is glass fiber filled. My off the cuff thought is to countersink since gun drills like to get started straight ... or provide a drill bushing to get it started straight. Use air to cool and evacuate the dust. Trap the dust with a vacuum of some kind. Diamond coating may extend the life of the drill.
    To put it mildly; a very interesting project.

  22. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Hatch, NM Chile capital of the WORLD
    Posts
    9,582
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    16140
    Likes (Received)
    11623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheeler View Post
    It's ".2" thick. I'm an idiot.
    Well now, I don't feel quite so sorry for you.

    Circuit board drill is where I would start.

  23. Likes DavidScott liked this post
  24. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    34

    Default

    I wondered about the 2" ... but.
    Oh well! Orders of magnitude only count in paychecks ... right?
    Modify my last post ... carbide drills and air to cool. Good luck!

  25. #19
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2255
    Likes (Received)
    1153

    Default

    Definitely contact multiple tool reps, and do sample parts to prove out their tools and parameters before chewing into the real part. You don't want to have to deburr that backside too much.

  26. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,797
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5488
    Likes (Received)
    3701

    Default

    Easy peasy, get a diamond coated drill. a GOOD one.
    In fact you're probably going to need 3-4 of them if I had to venture a guess depending on your speeds/feeds.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •