2000 Kitamura MyCenter 1 ATC tool changer arm stuck

Another issue has come up. I did the first tool change since I got it moved in and it seemed to do fine (no actual tools involved), but after the change, the arm over-rotated and ended up at a weird angle under the spindle. It threw an alarm and now I can't get it to move. I had to turn the machine off after a couple of hours of troubleshooting. The z axis is sitting all the way up.

Anybody have an idea how to get the arm out of the way and, ideally, get it back in alignment?

I've had this happen to me on our MyCenter 0, I believe it's a 1993. It's been a while since I fixed it but there's a dial on the far right of the control(hoping it's similar to what you have)that has options for moving the Arm and Magazine manually. Switch to manual mode and the lowest setting(X10 or X1), then turn the dial for the tool changer to rotate arm, then push the execute button below it and the arm Should move back to position. If that doesn't work let me know it can get you the steps from the manual. What version of Fanuc do you have?

Fadal Error said:

Another issue has come up. I did the first tool change since I got it moved in and it seemed to do fine (no actual tools involved), but after the change, the arm over-rotated and ended up at a weird angle under the spindle. It threw an alarm and now I can't get it to move. I had to turn the machine off after a couple of hours of troubleshooting. The z axis is sitting all the way up.

Anybody have an idea how to get the arm out of the way and, ideally, get it back in alignment?

Click to expand...

Do you have the manuals with the machine?

Which control does it have (fanuc or yasnac)?

our '93 mycenter 3 with Fanuc 0m control has diagnostic parameters to set that allow you to enter "maintenance mode", which makes it so each hard switch on the control panel does a certain tool change action.

Machinist II said:

I've had this happen to me on our MyCenter 0, I believe it's a 1993. It's been a while since I fixed it but there's a dial on the far right of the control(hoping it's similar to what you have)that has options for moving the Arm and Magazine manually. Switch to manual mode and the lowest setting(X10 or X1), then turn the dial for the tool changer to rotate arm, then push the execute button below it and the arm Should move back to position. If that doesn't work let me know it can get you the steps from the manual. What version of Fanuc do you have?

Click to expand...

I have an O-M control. The dial for the ATC doesn't look exactly as you were describing. This is what I have and none of the ATC functions will work right now.

I had to turn the machine off and now I can't home the z-axis because the tool changer is in the way.

dandrummerman21 said:

Do you have the manuals with the machine?

Which control does it have (fanuc or yasnac)?

our '93 mycenter 3 with Fanuc 0m control has diagnostic parameters to set that allow you to enter "maintenance mode", which makes it so each hard switch on the control panel does a certain tool change action.

Click to expand...

It is a Fanuc O-M control.

I have the manuals. I scoured them for instructions to get into maintenance mode, but I couldn't find anything.

try this
MDI
AUX 2 soft key
ATC1 soft key below screen
page down
highlight maintenance mode(will put machine in alarm status)
write
yes
handle mode
atc switch(bottom right of panel) to "tool change"...

this is where it can get interesting if the head is in the way so watch out

the execute button lower right will move the arm only 1 direction
if you have to reverse direction hold "feed hold" while you press execute

move arm back to home position
MDI mode
highlight maintenance
write
yes
reset


As for why that has happened, there is an sensor(for lack of better description) on the top of the machine that can get gummed up and sticky that needs to be cleaned

tay2daizzo8 said:

try this
MDI
AUX 2 soft key
ATC1 soft key below screen
page down
highlight maintenance mode(will put machine in alarm status)
write
yes
handle mode
atc switch(bottom right of panel) to "tool change"...

this is where it can get interesting if the head is in the way so watch out

the execute button lower right will move the arm only 1 direction
if you have to reverse direction hold "feed hold" while you press execute

move arm back to home position
MDI mode
highlight maintenance
write
yes
reset


As for why that has happened, there is an sensor(for lack of better description) on the top of the machine that can get gummed up and sticky that needs to be cleaned

Click to expand...

Thank you, thank you, thank you! It worked. I did indeed need to run it backwards to avoid hitting the alignment keys.

Now the tool pot is down and won't go up.

Glad you got it figured out. Save those instructions in a notebook, you'll need them again in the future.

Machinist II said:

Glad you got it figured out. Save those instructions in a notebook, you'll need them again in the future.

Click to expand...

Definitely!

Unfortunately, I still can't do a tool change with the pot stuck down.

Fadal Error said:

Definitely!

Unfortunately, I still can't do a tool change with the pot stuck down.

Click to expand...

Hello Fadal Erro,
I've found early Kitamura recovery routines to be a bit finicky, but you should be able to return the Pot to the correct position and reset the PLC manually.

With the machine turned on:
Assuming that the Pot is positioned via a double acting solenoid valve, (advance and retract), find the valve and you should see a terminal plug connected to each solenoid. If the valve has a manually operable spool, one end of the spool should be more visible at the end of one solenoid than the other. If this is the case, unplug both terminal plugs and using a small screw driver, or similar, push the spool in the direction of most visible to least visible. The Pot should return to its Up position. There should be proximity switches (with LEDs) to confirm the position (Up, or Down) of the Pot; make sure that the LED on the proximity switch testing for the Up position is illuminated when you get the Pot returned to the Up position.

If ALL components of the Tool Change mechanism are in the correct position prior to making a tool change, and all LEDs of the proximity switches that test for these positions are illuminated (showing that the respective Input signals should be being sent to the PLC), turn the power to the control off (still with the terminal plugs of the solenoid valve for the pot unplugged). With the power to the control/machine off, plug the terminals to the Pot solenoid valve back in and turn the machine back on. The PLC should see the correct Inputs for the Tool Change Components being in the correct position ready for a Tool Change and accordingly, the correct Outputs to the various Tool Change solenoids should be made.

Regards,

Bill

Thank you, Bill. I will try to figure that out when I get a chance. I have three other machines that are running fine. When I get them all producing parts I will go back to the Kitamura.

I'm starting to regret picking up the Kitamura. I have been running Fadals for years and they are so easy for me to figure out. I hope this Kit redeems itself with nice finish, tight tolerances and quick tool changes soon.

I located the valve, but it is not the type I am used to. It has small "buttons" on each end. I pressed on both ends and they both depressed. When I restarted the machine, the tool pot moved up. However, I still have an ATC alarm and I can't do a tool change. I disconnected the solenoid, shut the machine off and restarted it, but the LEDs do not light up and the alarm persists. I really think I need to defer to a Kitamura tech.

Call Kitamura with your serial number. They provide truly excellent support for their machines at no cost.

Fadal Error said:

I located the valve, but it is not the type I am used to. It has small "buttons" on each end. I pressed on both ends and they both depressed. When I restarted the machine, the tool pot moved up. However, I still have an ATC alarm and I can't do a tool change. I disconnected the solenoid, shut the machine off and restarted it, but the LEDs do not light up and the alarm persists. I really think I need to defer to a Kitamura tech.

View attachment 245288

Click to expand...

Hello Fadal Error,
What LEDs are you referring to, the LED on a proximity switch, or the LED on the Solenoid Valve? If the latter, these are not used as inputs to the PLC to pass the position status of various components that are actuated by the hydraulic system. The LEDs on the Solenoid Valve simply show which Solenoid is energized. For example, lets say that a part of the Tool Change mechanism is immovably jammed and power is applied to one side of the valve. In this situation the spool in the valve will be moved by the Solenoid, but because the component being controlled by the valve is jammed, no confirmation of completion of movement of the component will be received by the PLC, as the proximity switch at the component has not been made.

I would be finding and confirming the status of all proximity switches associated with the tool change; staring with the tool pot if you think this component is the cause of the Tool Change not working. The Input address for the various proximity switches will be listed in a hard copy of the Ladder (there will be a list of I/O and a description of the use of each), and there will be (should be) an identification label on the actual wire from the proximity switch.

The PLC interface by Kitamura are normally quite good, but their recovery system for Tool Change errors have been not so good on some models. When sorting an out of kilter tool change, I normally disconnect all of the solenoid (they are normally in one area) power supply plugs, find a plug that has power to it (determined by a multi-meter) and use that plug to drive the various components back to their ready position. This plug may lose power as the PLC reads the proximity switches changing state. If this happens, find another with power and continue. This should then have ALL the proximity switches associated with the Tool Change Ready position ALL in the correct state.

By cycling the power to the machine, the PLC should see ALL of the inputs from the Tool Change in the Ready Position and direct power to the correct ends of each Solenoid (virtually resetting the PLC). Accordingly, when the power is off, and all the components of the Tool Change in the correct Ready Position, all of the power leads to the Solenoids can be reconnected.

If after completing the above procedure, the Tool Changer will still not work, then its likely that a proximity switch signalling the position of the various components of the Tool Changer has failed, or is out of position. This should be able to be confirmed by a LED on each of the proximity switches, or definitely by viewing the status of the switch via its address in the Diagnostic Parameters.

Regards,

Bill

After reading your original post back in June I think you have a problem with the mechanical brake on the end of the tool change motor. Most of these motors have a brake release to manually recover the swing arm by turning the motor. If the brake release isn't put back in brake mode the arm will over rotate as yours did. I have also seen these brake discs wear and do the same thing but the brake can be cleaned and then adjusted.

Try moving the arm by rotating the motor until the message clears. If the arm continues to over rotate when doing a tool change it is probably a brake issue.

I got it working. It seems that it was a two-stage problem.

First, what is this? It is on the side of the machine just behind the ATC carousel.


It doesn't really look like a switch, but that pointed collar does twist with a lot of effort. We moved it to the left icon and the ATC alarm went away. I honestly can't remember if I moved it before. That allowed the ATC to work. It would do tool changes with no tool holders just fine.

Then I put tool holders in and it hung up on the first tool change. I put it into maintenance mode and got everything back into position. Had to shut down and restart the machine to get it out of a fault condition. It hung up a couple more times before I noticed that the z-axis position was about .010" below zero.

I tried clamping and unclamping the tool manually and noticed that the drawbar didn't want to release the tool very easily. I worked it many more times manually until it reliable released the tool. After that the ATC worked fine. It's like it got gummed up after sitting for so long.

Now I'm trying to figure out the RS-232 communication. I can send a program from control to PC, but I can't send one from PC to control. I have spent many hours messing with that, but that is in another thread.

The pointed collar is how the swinging cover that protects that button mounts. Yours is missing the swinging cover. The pointed collar normally points straight up, not that it matters.

DavidScott said:

The pointed collar is how the swinging cover that protects that button mounts. Yours is missing the swinging cover. The pointed collar normally points straight up, not that it matters.

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Weird. Moving it seemed to cancel the ATC alarm. Maybe it was just pushing the button. I wasn't the one back there messing with it.

What do those two icons mean?

Fadal Error said:

Weird. Moving it seemed to cancel the ATC alarm. Maybe it was just pushing the button. I wasn't the one back there messing with it.

What do those two icons mean?

Click to expand...

Pushing that button turns the magazine, if the switch next to it is turned to the left or right (left for ccw, right cw, center off)

with the left switch at center (red 0), that button should not do anything, although holding it might mess with some of the logic, possibly. Perhaps the button had a bit of a short in it from being twisted.

I guess I might add to what Dan said is if the rotater on the left is NOT centered then that will cause an alarm, hmm. Maybe that was what the other person was rotaing when the alarm went away???


IF this machine has been sitting for 8 months without ever running the spindle you MAY need to bleed the air out of the air/oiler for the spindle. I have been told by one of the corporate techs that they do not like to sit unused. The first bearing to quit getting oil if there is air in the oil system is the top one since it gets the least, and you won't find out till it squeals. He said it seems an air bubble will form at the metering orifice and get stuck there and that the smaller the orifice the harder it is for the system to pass it through. He brought this up to me when I was asking questions from him before I bought my 2001 Mycenter 1. The free tech help is amazing, Kitamura really deserves lots of kudos for this, and the machines are pretty fucking increadible as well! If you get this machine running well it will really cast a shadow on your Fadals.