24,000 6-32 holes to make, how fast can I go? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Do you need to drill and tap? Through hole right? The Brother has a drill/tap cycle G177 for DRAPs. A tap with a drill tip. I've used them on several occasions and this could be one of those 'right' applications. Cycle time with one of those around the 2 second range for drilling and tapping.
    I was gonna suggest the taps with a drill point as well but I didn’t know brother even has a canned cycle for them. I think that would be the fastest you could get because is saves the drilling operation and tool change. Which I know is fast on a brother but seems like every second is going to count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13engines View Post
    Great idea. And 6-32 could be cut in one pass. It would partially depend on the tightness and screw comp settings of your machine as to how fast you can run it and still maintain an acceptable amount of circularity. I mean small thread mills in small holes make for very small circular tool paths. Some machines are better at this then others.

    If the holes are fairly close to to each other I suggest trying all your rapid moves, even in and out of the hole, in a high feed G1 instead. I do this when creating HSM tool paths. Keeping the return to start point, which at times can be very close, at a high feed rate in lieu of rapid.. (250-500ipm) My Fanuc driven Mori machine moves quicker like this and the motors seem to like it a lot better. It's actually how I discovered the concept. I was getting an overheat or overload error on the servos during an HSM path. I guess dumping all the power it had into trying to get up to full rapid in a quarter or half inch was too much to ask. The only thing I did to get rid of the alarming was switch all my G0s to high feed G1s and no more problems. It also seemed to run faster and smoother.

    Ha... imagine producing a job with 24,000 tapped holes and never reversing the spindle. Sounds crazy but who knows? May be that the machine and overall program time would also like the idea.

    I see this no reverse tapping story told to the right crowd at the right time will likely get you a free beer to boot. :-)

    Dave
    I'll take a video if I can when I get it running and you'll see why reversing the spindle on a machine like this is no big deal.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    In cold-rolled steel? (I'm assuming that's what the OP meant when he said "It came on a coil".) 6-32 threadmill has a tensy tiny minor diameter, like .065". Not saying it can't be done single-pass, but I would predict that thread size consistency would be a challenge.

    Regards.

    Mike

    Hello MIke,

    No I know it would be a try and see kind of thing if you could get them to gauge consistently. That is once you got past the potential circularity issues. He could do two times around without leaving the cut like a built in spring pass.

    I've always thought those Brother machines are something else. Sounds like very high speed tapping on them is completely do-able.


    "I'll take a video if I can when I get it running and you'll see why reversing the spindle on a machine like this is no big deal."

    Hello Voltan,

    I don't doubt that it's not a big deal. Wasn't the point of my suggestion. Just a different option after the same goal of many holes tapped veddy fast.

    Dave
    Last edited by 13engines; 03-07-2020 at 07:00 AM. Reason: Stupid error in statement to Mike that nobody cares about but had to fix anyway for personal sanity.

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    With getting these products in and out of the machine quickly is more to win I think

    Peter

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13engines View Post
    Sounds like very high speed tapping on them is completely do-able.

    Dave
    I'm in uncharted territory as far as how fast to go. The OSG book says 90 sfm which works out to around 2400 RPM.
    So, I have a few of them I'll just crank it up and see what happens.

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    In your G77 cycle, you can add an L for a different return speed. For example:

    G77 Z-.25 R.05 J32 S4000 L8000

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    In your G77 cycle, you can add an L for a different return speed. For example:

    G77 Z-.25 R.05 J32 S4000 L8000
    While I have you on the phone... Can you explain the difference between a G77 and G84?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitan View Post
    While I have you on the phone... Can you explain the difference between a G77 and G84?
    I can go on and on about this one. The G77 is Brother's Synchronized tapping code. Brother synchronizes the powerful, responsive spindle to the Z movement which results in much higher tapping accuracy. Code is simple too. Use J for TPI and use I for metric pitch. So for M10 x 1.5, use I1.5, for 0-80, use J80 etc... Add L for different return speed, add Q for peck tapping. How"s that machine doing for you?

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  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    ... add Q for peck tapping.
    Do you still need to say G277 instead of G77 to get peck tapping? That's how it is with my 2016 S700. I just edited my post to always emit G277, and it does regular non-peck if you simply don't specify a Q value.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    In your G77 cycle, you can add an L for a different return speed. For example:

    G77 Z-.25 R.05 J32 S4000 L8000
    Technically, it will take only needs 4 revolutions to do the .125in. material thickness plus the additional distance to cover the tap taper.

    The tooling selected will be the most significant variable not the tapping rpm.

    If this was going to be an on going part, i would be looking into a drill head using a drill/tap tool. No tool change, no point to point movement time, just up and down on the z axis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    I can go on and on about this one. The G77 is Brother's Synchronized tapping code. Brother synchronizes the powerful, responsive spindle to the Z movement which results in much higher tapping accuracy. Code is simple too. Use J for TPI and use I for metric pitch. So for M10 x 1.5, use I1.5, for 0-80, use J80 etc... Add L for different return speed, add Q for peck tapping. How"s that machine doing for you?
    This thing accepts a G84 too though. That's where I got confused.

    The machine is working out great. We've already put thousands of parts through it for whatever secondary drilling/tapping/chamfering/light milling they needed.
    It's old and it's a real featherweight, but the boss has never heard of Brother CNC and he noticed how fast and reliable this one is so it may have actually sold a newer more rigid Speedio in the future. We'll see. It's a long way off yet but he said since we're out of room, if we need to increase capacity again maybe dumping our old VF-1 and putting a newer Brother pallet changer in it's place would work out.

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    Might have missed this, but can you make a positioning jig and stack & clamp a few parts to increase your throughput? Even 2x would help. Or allow you to generate scrap at an alarming rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    Might have missed this, but can you make a positioning jig and stack & clamp a few parts to increase your throughput? Even 2x would help. Or allow you to generate scrap at an alarming rate.
    I didn't go into detail about the part. There are other features that need to be countersink so I have to be on the face of each one individually anyway.
    The only question was how fast can a 6-32 tap run in soft steel.

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    It looks like a carbide forming tap would let you run at a slightly higher SFM than you mentioned, this guhring chart shows about 120 sfm for soft steel.
    https://www.guhring.com/documents/Te...ed/FormTap.pdf

    May also reduce your risk of a broken tap and not have tap chips to deal with.

    What requirement do you have for front and back side chamfer/deburr? I'm curious what people's experience is with those cogsdill clothespin deburring tools. You would need to verify if they would generate a big enough chamfer to serve as a thread lead in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Do you still need to say G277 instead of G77 to get peck tapping? That's how it is with my 2016 S700. I just edited my post to always emit G277, and it does regular non-peck if you simply don't specify a Q value.

    Regards.

    Mike
    G277 is a full retract on each peck, adding Q to G77 is for high speed chip breaker peck. Both will work on your machine. G277 only on Speedios.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    I can go on and on about this one. The G77 is Brother's Synchronized tapping code. Brother synchronizes the powerful, responsive spindle to the Z movement which results in much higher tapping accuracy.
    Wait, so I should be using G77 instead of G84 for my thousands of #4-40 tapped holes?
    I haven't had an issue so far after >30k tapped holes, is G77 faster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitan View Post

    The machine is working out great. We've already put thousands of parts through it for whatever secondary drilling/tapping/chamfering/light milling they needed.
    It's old and it's a real featherweight, but the boss has never heard of Brother CNC and he noticed how fast and reliable this one is so it may have actually sold a newer more rigid Speedio in the future. We'll see. It's a long way off yet but he said since we're out of room, if we need to increase capacity again maybe dumping our old VF-1 and putting a newer Brother pallet changer in it's place would work out.
    Thanks for the update. That is a story I have heard MANY times.

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    I imagine everyone in this thread suggesting threadmilling and tapmatics and hand-wringing about spindle reversal and acceleration times have never actually seen a Brother or a Robodrill rigid tap..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    Never used a Brother. It would be interesting to see what the average rpm is while tapping
    My hi-torque machines go 10K forward to 10K reverse in maybe a second. Tapping at 4K in the standard spindle, the reverse out is imperceptible. Hi torque would be the same, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by isaac338 View Post
    I imagine everyone in this thread suggesting threadmilling and tapmatics and hand-wringing about spindle reversal and acceleration times have never actually seen a Brother or a Robodrill rigid tap..
    exactly!
    10 char


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