24k Fanuc Robodrill & Tooling.

Rick_H · Nov 17, 2020

Apologies if this is going over old ground -

Any users of the 24k spindle robots here? If so, how have you found it for the work you do?

How do you get on roughing aluminium and similar? (E.g. 12mm tool adaptive pockets and the like)

And tooling - worth paying more for genuine bbt holders or do non official options do the same job - I understand it’s desirable to keep to shorter length tooling and will go with standard bb30 for small /non critical stuff, drills etc.

Any issues with the contact face? - I hear chips can get stuck between the face and holder on occasion.

Thanks.

wmpy · Nov 17, 2020

I don't have experience with BBT30, but from what I understand, if you're going to use the BBT on one tool in a job, you should use it on all the tools. Otherwise, a chip could get between the contact face and the holder when you're using a standard holder. It's better to have all tools BBT so that the face gets protected.

Rick_H · Nov 17, 2020

Good point - makes the question about ‘non official’ bbt tooling more important.

Our supplier stocks Big Kaiser official and a copy supplier so was looking to mix depending on the tool / application.

footpetaljones · Nov 17, 2020

Rick_H said:
Apologies if this is going over old ground -

Any users of the 24k spindle robots here? If so, how have you found it for the work you do?

How do you get on roughing aluminium and similar? (E.g. 12mm tool adaptive pockets and the like)

And tooling - worth paying more for genuine bbt holders or do non official options do the same job - I understand it’s desirable to keep to shorter length tooling and will go with standard bb30 for small /non critical stuff, drills etc.

Any issues with the contact face? - I hear chips can get stuck between the face and holder on occasion.

Thanks.

Go with Maritool. Frank gives you all three sides of the cheap/good/fast triangle. I'm 99% certain he isn't certified.

If you like hydraulic chucks, YG1 makes them for BT30.

Nerdlinger · Nov 17, 2020

Does your machine have an air or coolant spindle taper blast during tool changes? My Brothers do and, as far as I know, we’ve never had any chips get stuck. We only use dual contact holders for end mills, face mills, etc...tools with side loads. Good luck!

Pete Deal · Nov 17, 2020

I'm with footpetaljones Mine are not big plus but I'll be damned if I'd pay Big Kaiser prices unless I had to. Good stuff but not that good. Go with Maritool. Frank Mari has been on here any number of times discussing this.

Nerdlinger · Nov 17, 2020

Plus one for Mari. Great prices, service, and quality!

Rick_H · Nov 18, 2020

Nerdlinger said:
Does your machine have an air or coolant spindle taper blast during tool changes? My Brothers do and, as far as I know, we’ve never had any chips get stuck. We only use dual contact holders for end mills, face mills, etc...tools with side loads. Good luck!

Will look into this - like you I wanted to use the dual contact for the same type of tools.

Will look into delivery from Mari into the UK, I know they are well liked / have a great rep and the price looks good.

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 18, 2020

footpetaljones said:
Go with Maritool. Frank gives you all three sides of the cheap/good/fast triangle. I'm 99% certain he isn't certified.

If you like hydraulic chucks, YG1 makes them for BT30.

Correct. We are not certified. We contacted Big Kaiser for licensing in 2013. They flat out would not consider us for licensing. So I started making them anyway. We currently make BT30, CAT40, BT40, and CAT50 dual contact for well over 5 years now. Never had a single return or issue ( I should knock on some wood).

Sales are so steady on our dual contact lineup unless given to me for free I don't even want the licensing.

Anyway I am posting this for transparency and not to sell our holders. Do your due diligence and do what is best for your company.

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 18, 2020

footpetaljones said:
Go with Maritool. Frank gives you all three sides of the cheap/good/fast triangle. I'm 99% certain he isn't certified.

If you like hydraulic chucks, YG1 makes them for BT30.

I like hydraulics but for BT30 I really prefer solid holders or collet chucks that can give me the shortest gage length. Short end mill holder will outperform a longer shrink or hydraulic. Also we now make all of our BT30 retention knobs from H13 tool steel. Highest tensile strength in the industry. Definitely want to invest in some quality retention knobs.

Rick_H · Nov 18, 2020

fmari --MariTool- said:
I like hydraulics but for BT30 I really prefer solid holders or collet chucks that can give me the shortest gage length. Short end mill holder will outperform a longer shrink or hydraulic. Also we now make all of our BT30 retention knobs from H13 tool steel. Highest tensile strength in the industry. Definitely want to invest in some quality retention knobs.

I will get a list of sizes we need together and be in touch in the near future, including pull studs after a few of the horror stories I have heard with BT30 stud failure.

Any current robo users care to chime in from experience?

DouglasJRizzo · Nov 18, 2020

I know of someone with two Robodrills. They work very well for what he does, which is light milling and drill/tap. The full contact tooling is a win no matter what as you will get much better results.

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 19, 2020

I only mention this because it is a new BT30 product for us and so far getting a lot of attention with our instagram followers. We have developed a new connection for solid carbide saws and tool holders for flush slitting. This is 1.5" od. We will have several different connection sizes for larger and smaller diameters. Holders will be available in different gage lengths, "m" style slim nose diameters and also dual contact.

We will be stocking carbide saws in different thicknesses, full radius, and customs will be available.

Screen Shot 2020-11-19 at 7.25.47 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-11-19 at 7.26.03 AM.jpg

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 20, 2020

Nerdlinger said:
Does your machine have an air or coolant spindle taper blast during tool changes? My Brothers do and, as far as I know, we’ve never had any chips get stuck. We only use dual contact holders for end mills, face mills, etc...tools with side loads. Good luck!

most machine tool builders will recommend using all dual contact tool holders in your program or all standard holders. Dont mix and match. The logic is that when mixing standard holders and dual contact holders spindle face can get a chip and then get smashed when machine changes to a dual contact tool holder. So better off not using any dual contact.

Rick_H · Nov 20, 2020

fmari --MariTool- said:
most machine tool builders will recommend using all dual contact tool holders in your program or all standard holders. Dont mix and match. The logic is that when mixing standard holders and dual contact holders spindle face can get a chip and then get smashed when machine changes to a dual contact tool holder. So better off not using any dual contact.

Spoken to the machine provider and they did mention this as a possiblity but not inevitability but as number of tools required isnt huge I will just stick to dual contact.

Is that a typo about using no dual contact (I assume you meant dont use any non-dual?)

J Gilles · Nov 20, 2020

I believe what Frank means is either use one or the other on a given program/process. If they are all dual contact, your chances of getting chips in the face is really low. If you use all standard holders, it doesn't matter if a chip gets up there. The issue comes when you use a standard tool that throws a chip in between the gap and then tool change to a dual contact holder and mash it in there.

Rick_H · Nov 20, 2020

J Gilles said:
I believe what Frank means is either use one or the other on a given program/process. If they are all dual contact, your chances of getting chips in the face is really low. If you use all standard holders, it doesn't matter if a chip gets up there. The issue comes when you use a standard tool that throws a chip in between the gap and then tool change to a dual contact holder and mash it in there.

Fully understand that as Frank and our supplier has noted - I just wondered if his last comment about not using dual contact was for reasons other than stuck chips.

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 21, 2020

J Gilles said:
I believe what Frank means is either use one or the other on a given program/process. If they are all dual contact, your chances of getting chips in the face is really low. If you use all standard holders, it doesn't matter if a chip gets up there. The issue comes when you use a standard tool that throws a chip in between the gap and then tool change to a dual contact holder and mash it in there.

Yes exactly.
Dual contact and standard holders are interchangeable. You can put a dual contact holder in a standard spindle and visa-versa. No problem fitting in the spindle or tool changer. Sometimes if a customer is in a pinch and we only have a certain tool holder in dual contact we offer that to the customer even if they have a standard spindle. Of coarse we tell the customer and sometimes we discount the holder to be same price as a standard tool holder.

If your machine is dual contact there is nothing stopping you from running standard tool holders. Only problem is after several years of using standard tool holders a dual contact tool holder may not fit properly from uneven wear on the taper and none on the face. I would guesstimate several hundred thousand tool changes.

Wsurfer · Nov 21, 2020

fmari --MariTool- said:
Yes exactly.
Dual contact and standard holders are interchangeable. You can put a dual contact holder in a standard spindle and visa-versa. No problem fitting in the spindle or tool changer.

Thanks Frank. To clarify, i could use a big plus holder in my standard bt30 spindle, but would not get any benefit of increased stiffness because there would be a small gap between the bbt holder face and spindle face, correct ?.

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 23, 2020

Wsurfer said:
Thanks Frank. To clarify, i could use a big plus holder in my standard bt30 spindle, but would not get any benefit of increased stiffness because there would be a small gap between the bbt holder face and spindle face, correct ?.

Yes, the normal gap would be smaller but you would still have a gap. When you have a dual contact setup the spindle has more material on the face and the tool holder has a thicker flange. This allows the system to still remain compatible with standard tool holders.

24k Fanuc Robodrill & Tooling.

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

Aluminum

Aluminum

Stainless

Titanium

Stainless

Aluminum

Titanium

Titanium

Aluminum

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Aluminum

Cast Iron

Aluminum

Titanium

Cast Iron

Titanium

Similar threads