Jaxian
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2013
- Location
- Santa Cruz
I am in the market for a 4th for my Doosan DNM5700 Fanuc 0i-MF. I don't do production jobs, pretty much all my work has been prototype, R & D, and small run 100 count and under stuff. By that I mean I don't have a job that can write me a check to just outright purchase it without thought to cost because it is repeating work and can be counted on for income.
But having watched about the third small $2k - $5k job go by because I can't do 4th axis features I decided to make the investment. I have been honestly, and don't laugh, using an old Super Spacer to do just indexing work. Slow as hell but it works for making ten of some basic part.
So I looked at the prices Ellison gave me when I purchased my VMC. They just showed a company and a model number. Starting at around $20k and going up. Tsudokoma, Samchully, Lehman, ATS, etc. No other information about what is included.
So I gave Tsudokoma a call directly to see if they had any deals or what they recommended. First the lady at Koma seemed annoyed that I was even asking her about prices and breakdowns of what was involved. She seemed to act like when she quoted a price I would just cut a check and they would install it.
As to the layout question. From what I can see it consists of 5 different components. This is for a basic 8" size on a VMC.
1. Servo Amplifier
2. internal wiring
3. external wiring
4. Servo Motor
5. 4th axis rotary
Obviously a lot of other things can be added for chucks and closers and tailstocks but I am just talking basics.
So is it correct to assume that the Servo Amplifier and Servo Motor are both Fanuc branded products and matched to work together and with my Fanuc controller model?
Do all 4th axis within a class use the same Servo Motor? Meaning regardless of brand of 4th if it is a 8" for a Fanuc 0i-MF chances are it has the same Servo Motor. They don't make a different 4th axis body for each different control brand. They have some industry standard like NEMA Servo Motor mounting flange?
So saying if I bought a Servo Amp and Servo Motor and got a cheap used 4th I could upgrade the 4th later to a new nicer unit? It would use the same Servo and Amp regardless of brand in that size range and type.
I just talked to Fanuc on the phone for clarity and they weren't hugely helpful. They just said the Servo is whatever the 4th manufacturer specifies and the Amp will be the one to drive that. I get that but does that mean there are 100 of them for this application or just like 5. They did say you can mix Beta and Alpha Amps as my machine uses Beta but the Yuasa spec sheet says Alpha Amp and Servo.
I did give him the part number on the Yuasa sheet for the Amp (A06B-6160-H104) and Servo (A06B-0223-B000) and he said the Amp number doesn't exist and suggested a (A06B-6240-H104) but I needed to confirm that with them.
So right now the prices are looking like:
Koma RWE-200 $15,250 for the table, $8,000 for install ($4,500 for drive kit) around $25k cheapest
Yuasa DRFT-220 $7,195 for the table, $2,900 Amp, $2,000 Servo, $1,600 ext wiring, $900 int wiring, plus $3000 or so to install it for one afternoon. Total $17,595.
Not sure what the Ellison ones include but assume install, waiting for a quote back from my rep.
So does my understanding of the physical layout seem correct? Is this the best way to get a 4th on my machine? I have no idea how to do the cabinet wiring or set up the controller so seems I am kind of stuck having to pay someone to do that. I haven't found any information on how to set up the controller. I did find one video from Hardinge on how to put a 4th on a VMC as far as cabinet components.
This opened up a can or worms and seeing all the 4th's on eBay for reasonable prices but not knowing what will work has me kind of frustrated and going in circles.
Thanks for any help and getting me straightened out on this subject.
But having watched about the third small $2k - $5k job go by because I can't do 4th axis features I decided to make the investment. I have been honestly, and don't laugh, using an old Super Spacer to do just indexing work. Slow as hell but it works for making ten of some basic part.
So I looked at the prices Ellison gave me when I purchased my VMC. They just showed a company and a model number. Starting at around $20k and going up. Tsudokoma, Samchully, Lehman, ATS, etc. No other information about what is included.
So I gave Tsudokoma a call directly to see if they had any deals or what they recommended. First the lady at Koma seemed annoyed that I was even asking her about prices and breakdowns of what was involved. She seemed to act like when she quoted a price I would just cut a check and they would install it.
As to the layout question. From what I can see it consists of 5 different components. This is for a basic 8" size on a VMC.
1. Servo Amplifier
2. internal wiring
3. external wiring
4. Servo Motor
5. 4th axis rotary
Obviously a lot of other things can be added for chucks and closers and tailstocks but I am just talking basics.
So is it correct to assume that the Servo Amplifier and Servo Motor are both Fanuc branded products and matched to work together and with my Fanuc controller model?
Do all 4th axis within a class use the same Servo Motor? Meaning regardless of brand of 4th if it is a 8" for a Fanuc 0i-MF chances are it has the same Servo Motor. They don't make a different 4th axis body for each different control brand. They have some industry standard like NEMA Servo Motor mounting flange?
So saying if I bought a Servo Amp and Servo Motor and got a cheap used 4th I could upgrade the 4th later to a new nicer unit? It would use the same Servo and Amp regardless of brand in that size range and type.
I just talked to Fanuc on the phone for clarity and they weren't hugely helpful. They just said the Servo is whatever the 4th manufacturer specifies and the Amp will be the one to drive that. I get that but does that mean there are 100 of them for this application or just like 5. They did say you can mix Beta and Alpha Amps as my machine uses Beta but the Yuasa spec sheet says Alpha Amp and Servo.
I did give him the part number on the Yuasa sheet for the Amp (A06B-6160-H104) and Servo (A06B-0223-B000) and he said the Amp number doesn't exist and suggested a (A06B-6240-H104) but I needed to confirm that with them.
So right now the prices are looking like:
Koma RWE-200 $15,250 for the table, $8,000 for install ($4,500 for drive kit) around $25k cheapest
Yuasa DRFT-220 $7,195 for the table, $2,900 Amp, $2,000 Servo, $1,600 ext wiring, $900 int wiring, plus $3000 or so to install it for one afternoon. Total $17,595.
Not sure what the Ellison ones include but assume install, waiting for a quote back from my rep.
So does my understanding of the physical layout seem correct? Is this the best way to get a 4th on my machine? I have no idea how to do the cabinet wiring or set up the controller so seems I am kind of stuck having to pay someone to do that. I haven't found any information on how to set up the controller. I did find one video from Hardinge on how to put a 4th on a VMC as far as cabinet components.
This opened up a can or worms and seeing all the 4th's on eBay for reasonable prices but not knowing what will work has me kind of frustrated and going in circles.
Thanks for any help and getting me straightened out on this subject.