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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    I get the whole "dont fix it if it ain't broke" philosophy but, every other controller is ahead of Fanuc on usability. Cept maybe Yasnac. I've heard people really either love or hate the Okuma controller (mostly hate) but I haven't used it so I dunno.
    exactly. i've worked with high end machines with both controls, and heidenhain runs circles around fanuc in all aspects. the fanuc machine i've got experience with is matsuura LX160 and heidenhain are GF mikron and hermle. the only thing the matsuura has on the other 2 machines is all out rapid and feed speeds/acceleration. in literally everything else, both the mikron and hermle are lightyears ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    I won't even buy a Fanuc controller if someone paid me to do it. With the advent of the 21st century things like non-moronic interfaces and touchscreens I am shocked they are still living like it is 1991! Wooo!

    Heidenhain or Sinumerik all day for me.
    I've been saying this for years, people always give me shit for it, I'll never understand why. Fanuc is absolutely garbage. Please for the love of God OP, don't buy a machine with a fanuc on it.

    Mikron w/ heidenhain for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRIAN.T View Post
    I've been saying this for years, people always give me shit for it, I'll never understand why. Fanuc is absolutely garbage. Please for the love of God OP, don't buy a machine with a fanuc on it.

    Mikron w/ heidenhain for me
    The OP did rank reliability as his second most important requirement. Though it was not stated for how long, placing a high importance on reliability would make Fanuc the top choice. Particularly if the intent is that they would have the machine for longer than 10-15 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    The OP did rank reliability as his second most important requirement. Though it was not stated for how long, placing a high importance on reliability would make Fanuc the top choice. Particularly if the intent is that they would have the machine for longer than 10-15 years.
    there is nothing inherent to the heidenhain that makes it any less reliable than fanuc, hell our LX160 broke down about 10x more often than we had any issues with the mikron

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    IME, Heidenhain does not do well in supporting hardware after 10 or so years. That’s my reason for hesitation in recommending Euro controls.

    If one is looking for easy access to control spares on a 15 plus year old machine you will find that with Fanuc. Won’t be cheap usually but will be available either direct or from third parties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    in literally everything else, both the mikron and hermle are lightyears ahead.
    The Heidy has a lot going for it. Huge memory, you can claim any number of offsets/work coords (or just about), and its processing speed is VERY fast. The programming takes a little getting used to, but really, nothing anyone couldn't learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    The Heidy has a lot going for it. Huge memory, you can claim any number of offsets/work coords (or just about), and its processing speed is VERY fast. The programming takes a little getting used to, but really, nothing anyone couldn't learn.
    its very different from what most people are used to, for sure. but thats a GOOD thing IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    its very different from what most people are used to, for sure. but thats a GOOD thing IMO.
    Yeah, and once you do it, you can see why they wanted it that way.
    It's memory and process speeds are what really impressed me. That and the clean interface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    Yeah, and once you do it, you can see why they wanted it that way.
    It's memory and process speeds are what really impressed me. That and the clean interface.
    Things like memory always crack me up when it comes to CNC. Haas asking like $2000 for a 1GB memory upgrade! Fanuc is similar it has like 8mb onboard memory. My Hurcos have like 4GB of RAM onboard w/ 10K block lookahead...now granted they are Windows Shell controllers, but still. Even Mazak offers good memory options. I just don't understand how drip feeding is even a thing anymore on these "new" controllers.

    Any good MTB these days still using a Fanuc will run a skin over it so that the user doesn't have to deal with the shitty Fanuc interface. DMG comes to mind. Matsuura alientates a lot of potential buyers with Fanuc...same with Doosan although they do have a user friendly interface that is new from what I understand.

    Fanuc, sure it is very reliable. They support hardware from the 1980s and 1990s still. However who keeps a machine for 30 years these days? There are people yes but not most. Fanuc is no more or less reliable than anything else, and Heidenhain has a long enough track record to feel confident using it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Things like memory always crack me up when it comes to CNC. Haas asking like $2000 for a 1GB memory upgrade! Fanuc is similar it has like 8mb onboard memory. My Hurcos have like 4GB of RAM onboard w/ 10K block lookahead...now granted they are Windows Shell controllers, but still. Even Mazak offers good memory options. I just don't understand how drip feeding is even a thing anymore on these "new" controllers.

    Any good MTB these days still using a Fanuc will run a skin over it so that the user doesn't have to deal with the shitty Fanuc interface. DMG comes to mind. Matsuura alientates a lot of potential buyers with Fanuc...same with Doosan although they do have a user friendly interface that is new from what I understand.

    Fanuc, sure it is very reliable. They support hardware from the 1980s and 1990s still. However who keeps a machine for 30 years these days? There are people yes but not most. Fanuc is no more or less reliable than anything else, and Heidenhain has a long enough track record to feel confident using it.
    Doosan has a new HMI interface on the 0i-Plus, and I think, on the 30s as well. It's nice and helps but underneath, it's still Fanuc. That's good and bad in my opinion. Still rock solid reliable with a 30+ year MTBF, but still, a max of 8mb. Yeah, there's a data server and drip feed, but still. Doosan does offer Heidenhain and Siemens on many of their machines, but I think it has to be ordered that way.

    As far as keeping machines, I keep them forever, as I rarely throw anything away. So I like the 30+ years of support. But, the memory issue is still kinda silly. The OSP was packing 8GB, with more available, and most other control builders do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Things like memory always crack me up when it comes to CNC. Haas asking like $2000 for a 1GB memory upgrade! Fanuc is similar it has like 8mb onboard memory. My Hurcos have like 4GB of RAM onboard w/ 10K block lookahead...now granted they are Windows Shell controllers, but still. Even Mazak offers good memory options. I just don't understand how drip feeding is even a thing anymore on these "new" controllers.

    Any good MTB these days still using a Fanuc will run a skin over it so that the user doesn't have to deal with the shitty Fanuc interface. DMG comes to mind. Matsuura alientates a lot of potential buyers with Fanuc...same with Doosan although they do have a user friendly interface that is new from what I understand.

    Fanuc, sure it is very reliable. They support hardware from the 1980s and 1990s still. However who keeps a machine for 30 years these days? There are people yes but not most. Fanuc is no more or less reliable than anything else, and Heidenhain has a long enough track record to feel confident using it.
    up untill a year ago, doosan standard memory was 512 KILOBYTES...
    and like 5k for upgraded memory. absolutely ridiculous considering i can get a thumb drive with over a TERABYTE of memory for a few hundred bucks. the technology has been there for over a decade, MTB's are just milking the cow for all its worth. part of the reason i fucking hate fanuc, they are the WORST offender of this.

    with heidenhain, i install a program called TNCRemo on any computer on the network, through that program i can diagnose the machine, load programs on it and many other things. just drag and drop. it may seem like i'm oversimplifying things or preaching, but it REALLY IS that good and easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    Doosan has a new HMI interface on the 0i-Plus, and I think, on the 30s as well. It's nice and helps but underneath, it's still Fanuc. That's good and bad in my opinion. Still rock solid reliable with a 30+ year MTBF, but still, a max of 8mb. Yeah, there's a data server and drip feed, but still. Doosan does offer Heidenhain and Siemens on many of their machines, but I think it has to be ordered that way.

    As far as keeping machines, I keep them forever, as I rarely throw anything away. So I like the 30+ years of support. But, the memory issue is still kinda silly. The OSP was packing 8GB, with more available, and most other control builders do the same.
    doosan has to be ordered with HH/siemens from the factory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    up untill a year ago, doosan standard memory was 512 KILOBYTES...
    and like 5k for upgraded memory. absolutely ridiculous considering i can get a thumb drive with over a TERABYTE of memory for a few hundred bucks. the technology has been there for over a decade, MTB's are just milking the cow for all its worth. part of the reason i fucking hate fanuc, they are the WORST offender of this.

    with heidenhain, i install a program called TNCRemo on any computer on the network, through that program i can diagnose the machine, load programs on it and many other things. just drag and drop. it may seem like i'm oversimplifying things or preaching, but it REALLY IS that good and easy.
    I know, I worked for them. 512k was standard and going up was thousands.. I heard the complaints. That, and, until very recently, Fanuc REFUSED to let you drip feed off of a USB, you had to use the dopey PCMCIA card.

    I'm familiar with TNCRemo, it works great and is just common sense in today's shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    I know, I worked for them. 512k was standard and going up was thousands.. I heard the complaints. That, and, until very recently, Fanuc REFUSED to let you drip feed off of a USB, you had to use the dopey PCMCIA card.

    I'm familiar with TNCRemo, it works great and is just common sense in today's shop.
    not only that, but you have to buy their proprietary software for the pcmcia card. and get this, when we ordered, they had a 12 week backlog, FOR SOFTWARE... i'm not even making this up. what a stone age way of doing business. i'll avoid fanuc as much as possible, NO THANKS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 axis Fidia guy View Post
    This is easy, first off we went thru a difficult test cut several years back. We tested the Okuma, Hermle, Mikron, and Makino. Part surface finish and accuracy were number one consideration. We ended up with the Hermle C42 with the upgraded 25k spindle. It suits our needs perfectly, Mikron was second choice, then Makino, and Okuma was a complete waste of time. The control was just a complete puke reading the information and the machine was really struggling to hit the tolerance we were after. The Heidenhain just sailed with flying colors. DMG was not even a consideration based on people we know that have them.
    How many years ago? The OSP300 machines fly through code. Some of the better motion control, look ahead and block processing speed going. The 5 ax stuff all comes with super nurbs as well...but even modern versions of the hi-cut system will haul ass if you have things setup correctly.

    If someone dialed the path tolerance down to a tenth or something they will choke and die but that's to be expected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD341 View Post
    The OSP300 machines fly through code. Some of the better motion control, look ahead and block processing speed going.
    Compared to a Siemens or HH? No it doesn't. I have all three over here...

    The hicut on the M560V is okay, but nowhere close to the motion comp on our DMG or Mikron. And if you throw a mountain of code at the Okuma it really starts to choke, while the others don't even think about it.

    And that's just talking about raw performance. The large program handling on the Okuma leaves a lot to be desired. It's better than a Fanuc, but hardly a standout modern controller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD341 View Post
    How many years ago? The OSP300 machines fly through code. Some of the better motion control, look ahead and block processing speed going. The 5 ax stuff all comes with super nurbs as well...but even modern versions of the hi-cut system will haul ass if you have things setup correctly.

    If someone dialed the path tolerance down to a tenth or something they will choke and die but that's to be expected.
    What tolerance settings do you typically run with 5 axis simultaneous moves? I feel like I have to be at .0001 or lower to get a really nice surface finish for simultaneous moves with small stepovers, otherwise you get rounding issues between passes (I think this is what is happening at least). I go down to .00001 on the haas and I thought it was our little rotary that was capped out, maybe it is the lookahead with my settings ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by motox2121 View Post
    What tolerance settings do you typically run with 5 axis simultaneous moves? I feel like I have to be at .0001 or lower to get a really nice surface finish for simultaneous moves with small stepovers, otherwise you get rounding issues between passes (I think this is what is happening at least). I go down to .00001 on the haas and I thought it was our little rotary that was capped out, maybe it is the lookahead with my settings ...
    Seriously? on a haas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    doosan has to be ordered with HH/siemens from the factory.
    yes plus an extra 40k dollarydoos and 1-2months of build time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    up untill a year ago, doosan standard memory was 512 KILOBYTES...
    and like 5k for upgraded memory. absolutely ridiculous considering i can get a thumb drive with over a TERABYTE of memory for a few hundred bucks. the technology has been there for over a decade, MTB's are just milking the cow for all its worth. part of the reason i fucking hate fanuc, they are the WORST offender of this.

    with heidenhain, i install a program called TNCRemo on any computer on the network, through that program i can diagnose the machine, load programs on it and many other things. just drag and drop. it may seem like i'm oversimplifying things or preaching, but it REALLY IS that good and easy.
    512? Huge LoL. Ran a Yasnac I80 on an older Matsurra with 64k

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