5 Flute Face Mill Speeds and Feeds
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    Default 5 Flute Face Mill Speeds and Feeds

    I am cutting 34 RC 4140 Steel.

    I use this face mill daily and I am not convinced it is running efficiently.

    Running this cutter on a Haas VF2.


    I currently run it at S945 F12. and DOC .090"

    I am using TechMet inserts

    Package is labeled as follows

    "APMT160408PDER-PM GA4230"

    Vc= material dependent see catalog

    ap= Max .551"

    f= .005(.003-.008)in/z

    I tried to run the face mill at S1100 F40. DOC .090" and it blew up every insert after the 3rd pass. The inserts were brand new when I tried to run it with those specs.


    Looking for help, just ordered 30th Edition Machine Handbook so hopefullly it will be here in the next couple of days, until then i rely on my fellow machinist!


    ALSO, Can someone tell me how to change my material so it doesnt say "plastics" Someone told me it was a dead giveaway for newbie in a prior thread....L O L

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    Get a real CNC Mill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Get a real CNC Mill.
    Get some real advice and then comeback to this thread ass hat

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    After some digging online I found the catalog and used their recommended speeds and feeds to establish the following:

    S624 F25.


    gonna give this a go at .090" DOC and report back!

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    Your "material" rating will change with post count, it's not otherwise adjusted.

    For your inserts, I have no idea if they're optimal for steels at the speeds you'd like to go, or if they're being hindered by your cutter body geometry and diameter. I'd contact a applications engineer at TechMet and ask for recommendations on S/F and cutter overlap. Keep in mind that the Haas, as a lower-stiffness mill isn't ideal for steel cutting and will compromise inserts sooner than a more robust machine will.

    Are you using coolant? Sometimes you're better off cutting dry or with an air blast, as thermal shock to the insert edge can degrade them pretty quickly.

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    A: What is the diameter of the cutter? RPM means nothing without knowing diameter.
    B: WTF Is TechMet? Some cheapo Chinese insert?
    C: What brand is the face mill?
    D: How rigid is your setup? A block in a vise? Plate on the table? 12" overhang unsupported?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalt.deuel View Post
    Looking for help, just ordered 30th Edition Machine Handbook so hopefullly it will be here in the next couple of days, until then i rely on my fellow machinist!
    I would return it and spend way less money on a real speeds and feeds calculator like HSM Advisor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalt.deuel View Post
    Get some real advice and then comeback to this thread ass hat
    litlerob1 isn't wrong. Haas's are not known for being a "real" machine. But that is what you have, so that is what you will work with. That said. I don't know that tool, but being that it is a 90degree shoulder mill, given that you are in a 40 taper haas, it's not ideal for "facing" A 45 degree lead angle cutter would be much better. You haven't told us the cutter diameter, or the gage length of the assembly, we can't even begin to tell you what the actual issue is. But I'd bet you are overloading what the machine is capable of spindle connection wise, not to mention, it is a Haas, which means it is already crippled in the rigidity department. Also it would be nice to know what edge prep those inserts have. I will tell you, that with the quick research I did. That is about the cheapest carbide you will find in that style on the market unless you can get huge discounts from the major manufacturers. It may not even be the correct grade or edge prep for what you are cutting.

    Bottom line, get us more information and we will try and help you troubleshoot and determine what you can do with what you have, and possibly what you could do with your machine given you buy a more appropriate cutter.

    Give us the following at a minimum:

    Cutter diameter:
    # Flutes: 5
    Assembly Gage Length:
    DOC: .090"
    Width of Cut (WOC): (running down the center is bad, utilize thick to thin chip formation by running down the side of the tool if tool is wider than the part surface being machined)
    Do you need a shoulder mill, or can you use a lead angle cutter?
    What is your current spindle load when running at the parameters that don't break the inserts? This will help us determine if the inserts are the proper edge prep or geometry.

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    The link takes me to salt and pepper shakers at walmart........

    Given that I like to use SFM*4/DIA=RPM

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskermcdoogle View Post
    litlerob1 isn't wrong. Haas's are not known for being a "real" machine.snip


    Oh for fucks sake! You can certainly take a cut in a Haas.... Done it for years in tool steels, hardened tool steels, 4140ph....

    OP is not presenting enough information for anyone to help (Haas bashing aside)

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    Cutter Diameter: 3"
    # of Flutes: 5
    Assembly Gage Length: ??? Not sure what that means
    DOC: .090"
    WOC: 1.6" (I do not program but spoke with the Engineer/Programmer and told him to take a radial cut of less than 1/2 the Diameter of the cutter, in this case i told him probably no more than 1.3")

    I do have a 45 degree 3 flute cutter with Diameter of 1.3" that runs the same inserts as the shoulder mill...

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskermcdoogle View Post
    litlerob1 isn't wrong. Haas's are not known for being a "real" machine. But that is what you have, so that is what you will work with. That said. I don't know that tool, but being that it is a 90degree shoulder mill, given that you are in a 40 taper haas, it's not ideal for "facing" A 45 degree lead angle cutter would be much better. You haven't told us the cutter diameter, or the gage length of the assembly, we can't even begin to tell you what the actual issue is. But I'd bet you are overloading what the machine is capable of spindle connection wise, not to mention, it is a Haas, which means it is already crippled in the rigidity department. Also it would be nice to know what edge prep those inserts have. I will tell you, that with the quick research I did. That is about the cheapest carbide you will find in that style on the market unless you can get huge discounts from the major manufacturers. It may not even be the correct grade or edge prep for what you are cutting.

    Bottom line, get us more information and we will try and help you troubleshoot and determine what you can do with what you have, and possibly what you could do with your machine given you buy a more appropriate cutter.

    Give us the following at a minimum:

    Cutter diameter:
    # Flutes: 5
    Assembly Gage Length:
    DOC: .090"
    Width of Cut (WOC): (running down the center is bad, utilize thick to thin chip formation by running down the side of the tool if tool is wider than the part surface being machined)
    Do you need a shoulder mill, or can you use a lead angle cutter?
    What is your current spindle load when running at the parameters that don't break the inserts? This will help us determine if the inserts are the proper edge prep or geometry.
    Cutter Diameter: 3"
    # of Flutes: 5
    Assembly Gage Length: ??? Not sure what that means
    DOC: .090"
    WOC: 1.6" (I do not program but spoke with the Engineer/Programmer and told him to take a radial cut of less than 1/2 the Diameter of the cutter, in this case i told him probably no more than 1.3")

    I do have a 45 degree 3 flute cutter with Diameter of 1.3" that runs the same inserts as the shoulder mill..

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    SFM * 4 / 3 = RPM

    if we do some basic algebra (1100*3)/4=825 SFM

    That right there is your problem!

    I'm surprised the inserts lasted 3 passes. I've found APKT APMT inserts to be rather fragile

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalt.deuel View Post
    Cutter Diameter: 3"
    # of Flutes: 5
    Assembly Gage Length: ??? Not sure what that means
    DOC: .090"
    WOC: 1.6" (I do not program but spoke with the Engineer/Programmer and told him to take a radial cut of less than 1/2 the Diameter of the cutter, in this case i told him probably no more than 1.3")

    I do have a 45 degree 3 flute cutter with Diameter of 1.3" that runs the same inserts as the shoulder mill..
    Assembly gage length is how far from the spindle face to the end of your tool.

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    I have and do run Haas machinery.....and I have successfully Machined difficult to Machine work with Haas machinery.

    Mostly I like to antagonize the Haas die hards. It really doesn't mean a thing. With that being said...in my defense, I responded because the OP was so vague it's just guessing. Coolant, Ballscrews, Facemill pockets, Toolpath, S&F, Precipitation, Humidity, Coreolis effect, Chips, Machinery, Floor, Material supplier, etc. etc. These new threads are painful sometimes.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Get a real CNC Mill.
    Quote Originally Posted by dalt.deuel View Post
    Get some real advice and then comeback to this thread ass hat
    Actually bobs right on the money with a face mill and a haas

    I have a haasvf2ss and sanvick 3" 5 insert face mills THEY SUCK on a hass unless your .030-.050MAX doc.... on alum .150 doc is no problem, provindg you run the shearing alum inserts, normal inserts will not so welll on alum with heavy cuts
    everything else beats the crap out of the machine. we have to run steels and stainless using a face mill on a 96 fadal cause the haas cant do it with out beating its self to death.
    so work with what you got but cut your DOC in half, also dont come straight into a cut you need to rad the start. look on the sanvick website for the proper way to do it. It makes a huge differnce in tooling life.

    I dont know about your insert brand but if its a subpar insert and holder forget it. I use sanvick and some iscar

    Fake edit::: mine are 6 insert sanvik not 5 insert

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    Can you get me a link for Sanvick website? I have poked around on there this morning and cant find what you are talking about "radding" the start...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalt.deuel View Post
    Can you get me a link for Sanvick website?
    Sandvik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    The link takes me to salt and pepper shakers at walmart........

    Given that I like to use SFM*4/DIA=RPM
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    SFM * 4 / 3 = RPM

    if we do some basic algebra (1100*3)/4=825 SFM

    That right there is your problem!

    I'm surprised the inserts lasted 3 passes. I've found APKT APMT inserts to be rather fragile
    Quote Originally Posted by dalt.deuel View Post
    Can you get me a link for Sanvick website? I have poked around on there this morning and cant find what you are talking about "radding" the start...

    Hello McFly!!!!!!! Am I talking to myself? You are spinning the cutter way to fast for 4140 PH. Until you address that you are destine for failure!

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    Contact companies like Sandvik, Iscar, Seco, etc. and find out who you have locally that can give you applications support. I have the good luck of having a tooling supplier who deals with all my favorite tooling companies and will get an apps guy on site within a few days whenever possible. Someone in your area likely has similar support capability.


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