5th axis vs Lang

I'm looking to get in to doing some 4th axis work and looking at these two. Has anyone had both by chance? Thoughts, opinions?

Biggest complaint I hear about self centering vise is the jaw lift it can have.

Have you checked out Schunk? Super solid. We use them frequently.

Yes sir I have, I got quoted $6,200 for a platter, vice, zero point adapter for my 3 jaw chuck.

we have 2 of the small and 1 of the 6x10 the small ones are kind of cheesy the big one will hold pretty descent. If you offset to one side at all they just twist around. I would try something different if I was going again
Don


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I went with the MZU model from Spreitzer Centre-clamping vises - Spreitzer GmbH & Co. KG
Good product with a better price than the above mentioned brands.

/Staffan

The shop I work for uses Lang. They work fine for 1st ops when you are working with raw stock but I wouldn't plan on using them for 2nd op work. They don't repeat front to back as they have no fixed jaw and the jaws will lift randomly from .004-.008". If I was spending my own money I would look at the Orange 4/5 axis vises. I personally haven't used them, but they appear to have addressed both issues, are considerably less expensive than Lang, and I've heard nothing but good things about them from people here.

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I have tried both, the Lang worked better than the 5x, but the Schunk was the best, and what I purchased.

cb750chris said:

The shop I work for uses Lang. They work fine for 1st ops when you are working with raw stock but I wouldn't plan on using them for 2nd op work. They don't repeat front to back as they have no fixed jaw and the jaws will lift randomly from .004-.008". If I was spending my own money I would look at the Orange 4/5 axis vises. I personally haven't used them, but they appear to have addressed both issues, are considerably less expensive than Lang, and I've heard nothing but good things about them from people here.

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i have 3 delta iv vises from orange, and they work BEAUTIFULLY! cant beat the price either.

Delta IV - 4" x 6" Compact Vise - Orange Vise Company LLC

Orange and Eric have been awesome to work with.

cb750chris said:

The shop I work for uses Lang. They work fine for 1st ops when you are working with raw stock but I wouldn't plan on using them for 2nd op work. They don't repeat front to back as they have no fixed jaw and the jaws will lift randomly from .004-.008". If I was spending my own money I would look at the Orange 4/5 axis vises. I personally haven't used them, but they appear to have addressed both issues, are considerably less expensive than Lang, and I've heard nothing but good things about them from people here.

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Are you using the new or old style Lang vises? The new design came out about a year ago. They are significantly better.

Also I've never used 5th axis, but I can tell you I couldn't possibly be happier with lang, their stuff is unbelievable. Get the stamping unit and your life will never be the same. Every day I love them. Also 5th axis is just a copy of lang, so there is that.

Still looking.

I'm concern about the 5th axis stuff being alum bases

I'm a big fan of DERO vises --> Products Archive - IndustryControlling I have an HRK with reversible jaws on my general purpose machine with a 5-axis Koma table and a high precision RS on the Willemin.

We're using the Kontec ksc from schunk in our shop and they work really good.Never heard of DERO. But they look interesting. What about the price? Same league like schunk?

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BRIAN.T said:

Are you using the new or old style Lang vises? The new design came out about a year ago. They are significantly better.

Also I've never used 5th axis, but I can tell you I couldn't possibly be happier with lang, their stuff is unbelievable. Get the stamping unit and your life will never be the same. Every day I love them. Also 5th axis is just a copy of lang, so there is that.

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We have 20-30 lang vises in our shop, and the stamping unit. All of them are at least a few years old to my knowledge. I'm in QC, so I'm not out on the floor using them day in and out, I just know what all the guys on the floor tell me about the problems they have and I see the results from the QC side and I agree with them. They are nice vises, don't get me wrong, but the design has NO features that account for jaw lift, especially as the ways wear. Also, because both jaws are movable, they do not repeat front to back. I'm not talking inches, but when you're trying to hit a true pos callout of .0039 it can become a problem. It doesn't help that our programmer likes to use 2-3" tall alum softjaws on them either, even if the part only needs a 1/2" pocket. I did mention the Orange vises to one of the guys, because it appears that they addressed the issues we are seeing. He talked to the programmer about it (he's responsible for tooling, and the one who convinced the owner to go with lang), and he said something to the supplier who gets us the langs. He sent us a brand new one to try out a couple of weeks ago. I looked at it and can't see any difference in the design that addresses the issues we've had, other than just the fact that it's new and has no wear. We haven't tried it yet though, as far as I know.

Sorry for the long post, and not trying to bash lang, I just personally don't think they work well for second op use. First op they're great. Right tool for the job and all. If it was my money I would want something that can do both, and the Orange looks like a good possibility. My work can afford whatever they want, but if I was buying one for my mill at home that's what I would try.

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cb750chris said:

Sorry for the long post, and not trying to bash lang, I just personally don't think they work well for second op use. First op they're great. Right tool for the job and all. If it was my money I would want something that can do both, and the Orange looks like a good possibility. My work can afford whatever they want, but if I was buying one for my mill at home that's what I would try.

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All self-centering vises have problems being second-op vises. Obviously, the jaws are floating along a lead screw, so how on earth would they repeat with gnats ass accuracy?

Which is why most of the kinds of shops that use a bunch of Langs are also the kind of shops that use in-process probing. Probe the critical datums and these issues (mostly) disappear.

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I'm looking to get in to 4th axis work but have never done it. Last thing I want to do is buy a setup that doesn't perform well and have to rebuy it. I learn that lesson from the first Haas I bought.

gkoenig said:

All self-centering vises have problems being second-op vises. Obviously, the jaws are floating along a lead screw, so how on earth would they repeat with gnats ass accuracy?

Which is why most of the kinds of shops that use a bunch of Langs are also the kind of shops that use in-process probing. Probe the critical datums and these issues (mostly) disappear.

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not orange vise delta iv, one of the jaws locks into the base with serrations.

empwoer said:

not orange vise delta iv, one of the jaws locks into the base with serrations.

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I don't understand how that would work? Any videos out there?

How can it lock into the base but still be self centering?

Mike1974 said:

I don't understand how that would work? Any videos out there?

How can it lock into the base but still be self centering?

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Because it's not self centering. The adjustment of the "fix" jaw is in 0.0625 increments (1/8" if counting on both sides of the jaw)

empwoer said:

not orange vise delta iv, one of the jaws locks into the base with serrations.

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Sendit said:

Because it's not self centering. The adjustment of the "fix" jaw is in 0.0625 increments (1/8" if counting on both sides of the jaw)

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Thoroughly confused now as the topic was "self centering vises and jaw lift"

Mike1974 said:

I don't understand how that would work? Any videos out there?

How can it lock into the base but still be self centering?

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you're right, i missed the self centering part.