'96 FADAL VMC 4020 spindle orientation failure help

Collect.Create · Jul 26, 2021

I have recently done a spindle rebuild and installed a new pulley on the spindle,
I goto tool change and it doesnt want to lock in the groove to orient for a proper tool change 90% of the time.

can anyone point me in the right direction to test the sensor
and if that doesnt come up with result, is it a solenoid engagement issue?

i cant find any literature on the distance of stroke on the solenoid as it doesnt seem to have enough pressure to lock in place

Heres a a couple videos about whats happenning:

tool changer solenoid groove skip - YouTube

sensor lineup - YouTube

thanks

Bobw · Jul 26, 2021

I'm going to say you have a slight mis-alignment of the pulley to where
the hall effect sensor is.

It looks like its really close. Try dropping the sensor closer to the pulley.
What gap do you have now?

Also try turning the gain down in your parameters. Orientation factor.

Collect.Create · Jul 26, 2021

Bobw said:
I'm going to say you have a slight mis-alignment of the pulley to where
the hall effect sensor is.

It looks like its really close. Try dropping the sensor closer to the pulley.
What gap do you have now?

Also try turning the gain down in your parameters. Orientation factor.

the distance from the sensor to the top of pulley is at .032"

i was told to test the sensor through the panel, to see when it engages but i cannot find it in parameters in the panel

Collect.Create · Jul 26, 2021

so i changed the orientation factor by 1 to 9 from 10 and it doesnt skip around in the groove now but it is still having trouble finding orientation, i suspect it could be sense misaligning like bob is saying.

should i try adjusting the pulley for better sensor reading if dropping it closer doesnt work?

Bobw · Jul 26, 2021

Collect.Create said:
so i changed the orientation factor by 1 to 9 from 10 and it doesnt skip around in the groove now but it is still having trouble finding orientation, i suspect it could be sense misaligning like bob is saying.

should i try adjusting the pulley for better sensor reading if dropping it closer doesnt work?

The few times I've messed with it, I've set the gap at around .020, that seemed to be where it started
working right. You can go less than that.

Move the sensor down first, then if you have to play with the orientation factor, though
you should only have to mess with that when changing the actual motor, or the spindle drive,
possibly the spindle controller card.

Pulling the pulley off again seems like such a pain in the ass, and I'm not even the one
that has to do it.

Collect.Create · Jul 26, 2021

Bobw said:
The few times I've messed with it, I've set the gap at around .020, that seemed to be where it started
working right. You can go less than that.

Move the sensor down first, then if you have to play with the orientation factor, though
you should only have to mess with that when changing the actual motor, or the spindle drive,
possibly the spindle controller card.

Pulling the pulley off again seems like such a pain in the ass, and I'm not even the one
that has to do it.

thanks a lot for your help its much appreciated,
the orientation factor actually stopped it from jumping out of the groove which is nice to fix a problem ive been battling with since before the rebuild.

back from lunch and going to try the sensor dropping now and see how that works out.
ill keep you posted on the results.

ps the pulley orientation is the last thing i want to do, youre right its such a pain.

Tedger · Jul 26, 2021

Have you tried seeeing if the switch goes high or low as it passes the sensor?
Type DI, enter. Then DS to dispaly switches. (Typing X gets you out of this screen) Spin the spindle to see if one of the number changes. ( I don't remember which one is spindle magnet)

Collect.Create · Jul 26, 2021

Tedger said:
Have you tried seeeing if the switch goes high or low as it passes the sensor?
Type DI, enter. Then DS to dispaly switches. (Typing X gets you out of this screen) Spin the spindle to see if one of the number changes. ( I don't remember which one is spindle magnet)

thanks for the insight, i ran this test, it is under "ORIENTSP" 00 and 01 when you trip it. it seems my sensor is out with the alignment of the tool changer too much. i will have to heat the pulley and move it at least .05" to get the sensor to trip.
what a pain in the ass.

both you and bob are saviors to this novice. thanks again guys. ill keeep this thread posted to the success of the fix when its done.

Cole2534 · Jul 26, 2021

Bobw said:
I'm going to say you have a slight mis-alignment of the pulley to where
the hall effect sensor is.

It looks like its really close. Try dropping the sensor closer to the pulley.
What gap do you have now?

Also try turning the gain down in your parameters. Orientation factor.

This is what it took to get mine cycling right after some nuisance. I set it fairly low, like 5, but don't won't be able to look at it until tomorrow.

-Cole

Collect.Create · Jul 27, 2021

Cole2534 said:
This is what it took to get mine cycling right after some nuisance. I set it fairly low, like 5, but don't won't be able to look at it until tomorrow.

-Cole

yeah that worked for me to stop the groove skip i had to adjust to 9 from 10 ill probably have to adjust it again, doesnt happen near as often but its happened 1 out of 20 tool changes

Collect.Create · Jul 27, 2021

so i heated the pulley had to turn it less than .1" and it now works perfect especially with the orientsp change and dropping the sensor to ~.02" its working better than whenever ive had it anyways.

thanks to all you guys for the help i couldnt have done it on my own without you.

just some gib adjusting left and im ready to make some chips!

Cole2534 · Jul 27, 2021

Verified earlier, mine is set to 10.

Vancbiker · Jul 27, 2021

Collect.Create said:
so i heated the pulley had to turn it less than .1" and it now works perfect especially with the orientsp change and dropping the sensor to ~.02" its working better than whenever ive had it anyways.

Weren’t there alignment marks on the spindle shaft and pulley? Back in those dark days that I had to service Fadals the parts always had alignment marks machined in them.

mmurray70 · Jul 28, 2021

Collect.Create said:
ps the pulley orientation is the last thing i want to do, youre right its such a pain.

The shrink fit is a bit of a pain but does a great job keeping things nice and concentric, and keeping spindle vibrations down. Doesnt wear loose over time. Cheap to manufacture. Still easier to remove then a rusted on or galled up pulley. Seems like a pretty good design to me.

Collect.Create · Jul 28, 2021

Vancbiker said:
Weren’t there alignment marks on the spindle shaft and pulley? Back in those dark days that I had to service Fadals the parts always had alignment marks machined in them.

unfortunately they changed the part # (pul-0018 (discontinued - changed to pul-0020N) and even though i aligned it exact with the original part the mark was out just a little bit, enough to not catch properly

Collect.Create · Jul 28, 2021

mmurray70 said:
The shrink fit is a bit of a pain but does a great job keeping things nice and concentric, and keeping spindle vibrations down. Doesnt wear loose over time. Cheap to manufacture. Still easier to remove then a rusted on or galled up pulley. Seems like a pretty good design to me.

oh yeah, definitely straight forward and easy to get to, also probably better if you have the fadal issued sized parallel to rest the hot pulley on. i just used a block build up to that size, it didnt help my situation.

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