Which accessories to get with a new VMC ?

Panza · Nov 9, 2021

I am getting quotes for a new VMC from all the usual names: Mazak, Okuma, Doosan etc. Size: 30-40" X stroke.
Wondering which Accessories to get included in the quote ?
I assume I can get a better price on these things when included with a machine than later ?

My thoughts are:

Pullstuds for the full magazine.
Hydraulic tool holders for the most used sizes of endmills and facemills.
2 vices - Not sure about ideal size for this machine size ?

DouglasJRizzo · Nov 9, 2021

A spindle probe and a tool setter are, to me, mandatory on new CNCs.
Also, coolant thru pullstuds, and at least 2 decent vises.

13engines · Nov 9, 2021

I'll 2nd the probing.

Chip management. Whether that be augers or conveyors. You will seldom regret having them, but without a doubt you will have terse words when spending half your time scooping out chip trays. Don't ask me how I know this...

Panza · Nov 9, 2021

Here are the options I have already gotten in the quotes. I considered them part of the machine, not really accessories, but in hindsight that was not very clear.

20 bar TSC
4th axis ready
40 tool positions
Tool probe
Workpiece probe

Regarding a chip conveyor: I do mostly one-offs so I will see how it goes without it. Easy enough to add after the fact if it is needed.

beege · Nov 9, 2021

Panza said:
Regarding a chip conveyor: I do mostly one-offs so I will see how it goes without it. Easy enough to add after the fact if it is needed.

Adding it later will add a bunch of cost not included in the initial install. Better to get it now. I don't think you'll regret it.

Garwood · Nov 9, 2021

A conveyor is not fun to retrofit.

I would buy chip conveyor before I'd buy probing or pay extra for wiring for an OEM 4th without buying the 4th.

doug925 · Nov 10, 2021

I remember the arguments for/ against certain machine options & accessories. Without fail. (worth repeating) Without fail, I REGRET not buying the 'spendy' options because it is an extra 5, or 14, or $25K.
What is another 14K for a conveyor, when amortized over 5 years. (assuming lease/buyout)

On my cnc first lathe, I didn't opt for a programmable steady. Mistake.
The first 2 mills I purchased didn't have through coolant. Mistake.
I didn't opt for the MYW lathe, I went for a M only. Mistake.
There is a pattern.... LOL

Buy whatever you *think* you will need. Most items cost a lot more to install after the fact.

Doug.

706jim · Nov 10, 2021

When ordering a new VMC for the school I worked at, my manager asked why I would want more arbors than the number of pockets in the tool changer.

Really!

Mtndew · Nov 10, 2021

Panza said:
20 bar TSC

Regarding a chip conveyor: I do mostly one-offs so I will see how it goes without it. Easy enough to add after the fact if it is needed.

If I were you, I would MOST DEFINITELY get a higher pressure tsc.
500psi minimum. 1000psi preferred. We've had 500psi for years and kick myself all the time for not getting 1000psi.

BluishInventor · Nov 10, 2021

Garwood said:
A conveyor is not fun to retrofit.

I would buy chip conveyor before I'd buy probing or pay extra for wiring for an OEM 4th without buying the 4th.

I agree with getting a conveyor as many have said. Though, I feel if you can get it wired for 4th you should even if you don't get the rotary axis right away. However, i would ask if special configurations would have to be made after you get the rotary axis. For our Haas Mills, it's plug and play. You just select in the settings which rotary system you're plugging in. Not sure how other manufacturers handle it.

doug925 said:
Buy whatever you *think* you will need. Most items cost a lot more to install after the fact.

Doug.

Having the capability up front means less jobs you have to turn down. That's what we specialize in, is parts that most shops NO-BID because they don't have the capability.

Garwood · Nov 10, 2021

BluishInventor said:
I agree with getting a conveyor as many have said. Though, I feel if you can get it wired for 4th you should even if you don't get the rotary axis right away. However, i would ask if special configurations would have to be made after you get the rotary axis. For our Haas Mills, it's plug and play. You just select in the settings which rotary system you're plugging in. Not sure how other manufacturers handle it.

It seems to me like you would know if you needed full 4th axis capability and buy that or not buy it. If you don't use full 4th capabilities then 3+1 is probably just fine for you. Any VMC can be a 3+1 machine with little trouble.

Haas is a different story because Haas has made so many rotaries that they are easy to find used. In the case of other machines once you get past the time period where the machine isn't brand new anymore buying a 4th setup from the OEM isn't an affordable option. And most OEM's don't make the 4th's. They use a company that specializes in them.

Lots of shops run a japanese VMC with a haas stand alone indexer.

garyhlucas · Nov 10, 2021

My argument to the boss: You can buy us a new tool every month for $150 and in five years we’ll have everything need. Or you can finance it with the machine and pay $150 a month and we’ll have everything we need right now. Everyone was shocked when new machine arrived with a complete tooling package!

Orange Vise · Nov 10, 2021

Panza said:
Regarding a chip conveyor: I do mostly one-offs so I will see how it goes without it. Easy enough to add after the fact if it is needed.

Shoveling chips is a very costly waste of time.

I'd only consider foregoing a chip conveyor if I didn't have the space or my application produced a very low volume of chips, e.g. hardmilling or micro machining.

Panza · Nov 11, 2021

doug925 said:
I remember the arguments for/ against certain machine options & accessories. Without fail. (worth repeating) Without fail, I REGRET not buying the 'spendy' options because it is an extra 5, or 14, or $25K.
What is another 14K for a conveyor, when amortized over 5 years. (assuming lease/buyout)
......
Doug.

I'll get the conveyor. Too many people recomend it to not get it, and the cost isn't that bad. Will hopefully get some discount on that too.

Mtndew said:
If I were you, I would MOST DEFINITELY get a higher pressure tsc.
500psi minimum. 1000psi preferred. We've had 500psi for years and kick myself all the time for not getting 1000psi.

I'll ask what the cost is but I think it's $35K or thereabout. Definitely outside the budget. I'm making a 1000psi unit for the NLX, that could easily be moved over if there is a big enough job. Which jobs are you kicking yourself most about not having 1000psi ?

Garwood said:
It seems to me like you would know if you needed full 4th axis capability and buy that or not buy it. If you don't use full 4th capabilities then 3+1 is probably just fine for you. Any VMC can be a 3+1 machine with little trouble.

Haas is a different story because Haas has made so many rotaries that they are easy to find used. In the case of other machines once you get past the time period where the machine isn't brand new anymore buying a 4th setup from the OEM isn't an affordable option. And most OEM's don't make the 4th's. They use a company that specializes in them.

Lots of shops run a japanese VMC with a haas stand alone indexer.

The conctrols are all capable of full 4 axis.

Mtndew · Nov 11, 2021

Panza said:
I'll ask what the cost is but I think it's $35K or thereabout. Definitely outside the budget. I'm making a 1000psi unit for the NLX, that could easily be moved over if there is a big enough job. Which jobs are you kicking yourself most about not having 1000psi ?

35k? For 1000psi? That doesn't sound right. Especially when 500psi is typically around 6k.
1000psi should be 10k or less.

kylepar145 · Nov 11, 2021

Nobody has mentioned oil skimmers yet, but they're nice additions to any machine. Don't have the clean out the tank as often, and anything that helps prevent coolant from smelling like rotten eggs is a welcomed feature.

TeachMePlease · Nov 11, 2021

Mtndew said:
35k? For 1000psi? That doesn't sound right. Especially when 500psi is typically around 6k.
1000psi should be 10k or less.

Depends on the machine. That's about right for adding it to a Mikron mill.

mutiny · Nov 11, 2021

Yeah $35k doesn't sound right to me either. I recently got a Mazak Superflow, made in US, 1000psi variable with dual bag fitlers, was around $13k. They had 1k psi models with fewer features for under $10k.

mutiny · Nov 11, 2021

I also don't recommend buying pullstuds from the MTB... It's not going to be a huge amount relative to the machine tool, but you can get high quality, high torque pull studs from MariTool or JM Performance for less than half the price I've seen quoted with machines.

BROTHERFRANK · Nov 11, 2021

Panza said:
I'll get the conveyor. Too many people recomend it to not get it, and the cost isn't that bad. Will hopefully get some discount on that too.

My recommendation for milling is do not go for the basic (lowest cost) link belt conveyor. Those are ok for a 2 axis lathe and thats about it imo. Practically worthless when milling due to more fines getting through. Here we typically offer Turbo or Mayfran conveyors and they both have various designs that are self cleaning which work much better. Often you choose based on materials and chip types anticipated.

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