Accumill/Fanuc 3M-RS232c-Has anyone run one from a computer?

Cannonmn · Oct 1, 2020

I’m in touch with Enshu/Fanuc/Black Box etc, everyone who supplied parts of the Accumill way back in early 1980’s. I’d like to program it via an rs-232c link. I have an app that will send a program via rs232c and we know it works but the Accumill has yet to receive a program. Here’s the pertinent documentation:

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Has anyone figured out how to do this?

Garwood · Oct 1, 2020

I've never seen a 3M, but it must be like a 3T???

If so then this has been done atleast 100 bajillion times.

What have you determined to not be working?

DavidScott · Oct 1, 2020

3M and 3T are the same except for software. Yes, I have communicated with both RS 232. I think 4800kb is max baud rate, the rest was all set the most common way. I used Hyperterminal back then. The 3 was the precursor to the O.

What version of 3 is it? A, B, C, etc.

Cannonmn · Oct 1, 2020

Thx. We made up cable per instructions and “assumed” it should be plugged into the 25 pin connector in back, the connector the manual says is for teletype. Guess not, Mill didn’t receive anything. Fanuc today told us we need to connect to pins 2,3,7 on plug CNT4 that’s in the tape drive box. We’ll do that tomorrow.

Cannonmn · Oct 1, 2020

DavidScott said:
3M and 3T are the same except for software. Yes, I have communicated with both RS 232. I think 4800kb is max baud rate, the rest was all set the most common way. I used Hyperterminal back then. The 3 was the precursor to the O.

What version of 3 is it? A, B, C, etc.

It is version A.

Garwood · Oct 1, 2020

The DB25 connector is normally RS-232.

The RS232 comm chips are somewhat fragile. A good lightening storm will usually take one/both out.

If you can't receive try sending.

Cannonmn · Oct 1, 2020

Garwood said:
The DB25 connector is normally RS-232.

The RS232 comm chips are somewhat fragile. A good lightening storm will usually take one/both out.

If you can't receive try sending.

Thx, good to know. Now I’ll keep it unplugged when not in use. If you happen to remember where those RS-232 chips are and/or their part numbers, I’ll start looking for sources just in case.

Vancbiker · Oct 1, 2020

Chip numbers are......

Texas Instruments
SN75188 is the driver (output).
SN75189 is the receiver (input).

WakelessFoil · Oct 2, 2020

DavidScott said:
3M and 3T are the same except for software. Yes, I have communicated with both RS 232. I think 4800kb is max baud rate, the rest was all set the most common way. I used Hyperterminal back then. The 3 was the precursor to the O.

What version of 3 is it? A, B, C, etc.

Hello, I am cannonmn's assistant and am also working on this project.
Do you still have a Fanuc 3 machine set up? If so could you post images of the inside of the tape drive enclosure? (I believe only 2 screws hold the door shut) We can then compare our configuration.
Also, you said you used Hyperterminal to talk to the machine? We did not know that a terminal could be used like this (we were using DNC software). Does the machine present a interface in the terminal to perform functions like programming? Or something else?

Thank you,
Justin

DavidScott · Oct 3, 2020

WakelessFoil said:
Hello, I am cannonmn's assistant and am also working on this project.
Do you still have a Fanuc 3 machine set up? If so could you post images of the inside of the tape drive enclosure? (I believe only 2 screws hold the door shut) We can then compare our configuration.
Also, you said you used Hyperterminal to talk to the machine? We did not know that a terminal could be used like this (we were using DNC software). Does the machine present a interface in the terminal to perform functions like programming? Or something else?

Thank you,
Justin

Sorry, I left that shop 15 years ago. Hyperterminal is a communication program that used to come with Windows, up to XP at least. Very simple but that was some of the appeal, free and easy to set up.

Cannonmn · Oct 3, 2020

Vancbiker said:
Chip numbers are......

Texas Instruments
SN75188 is the driver (output).
SN75189 is the receiver (input).

Thx. When I looked them up to buy a few spares, TI has four different flavors of SN 75188, no idea of difference and exactly what I should order. I didn’t look up other one yet.

https://www.ti.com/product/SN75188?HQS=TI-null-null-EDI-df-pf-native-eu

Garwood · Oct 3, 2020

Last chips I bought from Mouser were TI SN75189AN and SN75188N

If they are not already socketed buy sockets too.

Garwood · Oct 3, 2020

WakelessFoil said:
Hello, I am cannonmn's assistant and am also working on this project.
Do you still have a Fanuc 3 machine set up? If so could you post images of the inside of the tape drive enclosure? (I believe only 2 screws hold the door shut) We can then compare our configuration.
Also, you said you used Hyperterminal to talk to the machine? We did not know that a terminal could be used like this (we were using DNC software). Does the machine present a interface in the terminal to perform functions like programming? Or something else?

Thank you,
Justin

I have two 3T machines and neither one has a tape drive.

99% of the RS232 problems I have dealt with are port configuration issues with the PC. There's a bunch of info out there on configuring your serial ports for RS232.

If you aren't using a serial port, well, good luck. If your PC lacks a serial port add one to it. If it's a laptop, well, that sucks.

They make port tester things with led's that light up when stuff is happening. pretty handy for this kind of stuff.

Dan from Oakland · Oct 3, 2020

Do you know how to check communication settings at the control? If you are not familiar with setting up RS232, the sending computer settings need to match the receiving computer settings. I'm like Garwood and have two 3T machines so we can help you get things set correctly as can others on this forum.

rabler · Oct 4, 2020

Garwood said:
I have two 3T machines and neither one has a tape drive.

99% of the RS232 problems I have dealt with are port configuration issues with the PC. There's a bunch of info out there on configuring your serial ports for RS232.

If you aren't using a serial port, well, good luck. If your PC lacks a serial port add one to it. If it's a laptop, well, that sucks.

They make port tester things with led's that light up when stuff is happening. pretty handy for this kind of stuff.

RS-232 is not a single standard, it is a set of options that got mangled over the years.
You need software on the PC, such as the previously mentioned Hyperterm.
You need a port on the PC. There a plethora of usb to rs-232 to usb adapters for around $20 that work well.
You need a cable. With the right pins connected, and the right ends (male vs female). Often the usb adapters are 9 pin rather than 25 pin so you might need to take that into account.
These pins are transmit, receive and signal ground,
On a 25 pin connector, pin 7 is ground. On a 9 pin connector, pin 5 is ground.
On both, pins 2 & 3 are transmit and receive. On some devices, 2 is transmit, 3 is receive. On others 3 is transmit 2 is receive. Regardless transmit on one end needs to connect to receive on the other. So if transmit is on the same pins on both ends, you need a “crossover cable” that connects pin 2 on one end to pin 3 on the other end, and 3 to 2.
Once cabling is correct, you have to get PC software configured: port, Baud rate, data bits, stop bits and parity.
You should be able to google more info on each step.

You will not harm anything with having the cable wrong or the software configured wrong. It just won’t work.
If you get nonsense characters, it usually means a baud rate/parity/stop misconfiguration.

Cannonmn · Oct 6, 2020

Thx. Justin’s off this week so I’m working it a piece at a time. Today’s piece is setup of the pc’s comm program, and I got as far as shown here,

Flickr: Page Not Found

The 4800 baud was only thing I put in, all other is default and I need to get the right stuff in those blanks. Any help appreciated. After that I’ll look for the USB-232-USB thing, not sure Justin doesn’t already have that covered but until I see one I won’t know. I have a breakout box and all cabling needed I think.

angelw · Oct 6, 2020

Cannonmn said:
Thx. Justin’s off this week so I’m working it a piece at a time. Today’s piece is setup of the pc’s comm program, and I got as far as shown here,

Flickr: Page Not Found

The 4800 baud was only thing I put in, all other is default and I need to get the right stuff in those blanks. Any help appreciated. After that I’ll look for the USB-232-USB thing, not sure Justin doesn’t already have that covered but until I see one I won’t know. I have a breakout box and all cabling needed I think.

Hello Cannonmn,

With regards to the plethora of usb to rs-232 to usb adapters mentioned by rabler that work, there are that times 10 that don't, with Windows OS Win7 and beyond. You will save yourself a lot of trial and error by installing a real serial port.

On the Setting Page, set the I/O to Zero, then the following parameters apply

Parameter
0005
Bit 0 = 1 (2 Stop Bits)
bit 2 = 0 (RS232C is used)
Bit 7 = 1 (Feed is not output at start and end of program)

0068 = Baud Rate (suggest 4800 to start)

Set the protocol on your PC or Lap Top to:

Handshake Method = Xon/Xoff (Software Handshaking)
Data Bits = 7
Parity = Even
Stop Bits =2
Baud Rate (to match that set on the control eg. 4800)

Cable Configuration

Machine Side -------------------------- PC Side
DB25 Male ---------------------------- DB9 Female
1 ---- Shield Trace ---------------- No Connection
2 ---------------------------------------- 2
3 ---------------------------------------- 3

4
| Bridged
5

6
|
8 All Bridged
|
20

7 ---------------------------------------- 5

Regards,

Bill

DavidScott · Oct 6, 2020

angelw said:
You will save yourself a lot of trial and error by installing a real serial port.

The better new motherboards don't even have serial port headers :eek:

, how else can you install a real serial port? Really, I would like to know as the newest component in my computer is 10 years old so a new one is in order.

Vancbiker · Oct 6, 2020

Most "industrial" PC motherboards have native RS-232.

As long as your PC has an open PCIe slot you can install a serial card.

If using a laptop then a Moxa uPort 1110 USB to RS-232 adapter is a good choice. Another option for a laptop would be an expressCard to RS-232 adapter. I've set up a couple of those for others and use one personally now with no trouble.

angelw · Oct 7, 2020

DavidScott said:
The better new motherboards don't even have serial port headers , how else can you install a real serial port? Really, I would like to know as the newest component in my computer is 10 years old so a new one is in order.

Hello David,
As noted by Kevin. And you don't have to stop at one or two Serial Ports, multiple Serial Port cards are available.

Where multiple machines are involved, rather than use a switch box to select the machine to communicate with, I would generally install sufficient Serial Ports and select the machine from a Drop Down list (as shown in the picture below). The Serial Port assigned to the selected machine would then be used to transfer the program.

The software could also be put into polling mode, where it would poll the available Serial Ports for activity. This allowed any control attached to the computer to request a program to be retrieved and sent to it without an operator attending the sending computer.

Regards,

Bill

Accumill/Fanuc 3M-RS232c-Has anyone run one from a computer?

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