Adapting 3/4" lathe tooling to 1" holder- Stupid or doable?

npolanosky · Oct 15, 2018

I just got my KIA lathe up and running and don't have a ton of tooling for it yet, but I have plenty of 3/4" tools for my manual lathe. If I make some nice, accurate, 1/4" thick L shaped spacers to get the tool in the right spot can I use those in my 1" holders, or should I suck it up and buy the 1" versions of my indexable threading and parting tools? I have a bunch of turning and facing tools inbound with a variety of inserts and styles, just not threading tools yet.

Side note- Does anyone know where to get the pins for VDI40 turrets? I have a few that have seen better days and I'd like to replace them. There are 14mm by ~20mm with an M10 thread for coolant transfer and 10mmx14mm with a 5mm thread for aligning the tools. I can't find dowels of that size with the thread on mcmaster or MSC. Might be a machine tool specific thing, or maybe I just need to turn my own.

Dan from Oakland · Oct 15, 2018

Nothing wrong with the spacer idea- just get the bottom accurate as that will affect the centerline height of the insert obviously. I have a few of those myself, and they do come in handy for those oddball jobs.

BROTHERFRANK · Oct 15, 2018

You can purchase L shaped spacers for this purpose. Takisawa sells them. You should be able to contact Yamazen parts for a quote. 877-619-7278. Specify a TCN-2100, 12 station turret machine.

Rob F. · Oct 15, 2018

If you can buy them as said above that is a good idea, if expensive, buy one and copy it

wheelieking71 · Oct 15, 2018

I just bought precision ground flat stock from McMaster, and cut to length.

alphonso · Oct 15, 2018

npolanosky said:
Side note- Does anyone know where to get the pins for VDI40 turrets? I have a few that have seen better days and I'd like to replace them. There are 14mm by ~20mm with an M10 thread for coolant transfer and 10mmx14mm with a 5mm thread for aligning the tools. I can't find dowels of that size with the thread on mcmaster or MSC. Might be a machine tool specific thing, or maybe I just need to turn my own.

Get the whole assembly from the turret maker. Too fuckin' much of a hassle to make them yourself.

I have a dozen or so L=shaped spacers to use 3/4 shank tools in !" blocks. 1/4" cold rolled tack welded together.

litlerob1 · Oct 15, 2018

I have no idea what you guys are talking about with a "L" shaped stuff. I just grab a piece of 1/4" stock and jam it in there. Turning tools are never really on center anyway. If you need to be really accurate then guess what, I'm a Machinerer of things and stuff, I can machine myself one within .0002" and Parallel to a Gajillionth in about 10 minutes on a BP. "Buy one" sounds silly to me.

R

npolanosky · Oct 15, 2018

Cool, sounds like it's a "tried and true" concept. I'll just make a pair out of scrap on the HAAS, I've got some 30ish rockwell C 4140 that should do the job nicely. Might surface grind them to final thickness, we'll see how I can do in the VMC.

If anyone knows anything about the pins just let me know. I thought it would be an easy trip to McMaster for them, but they seem hard to find and KIA is altogether unhelpful.

YorkCNC · Oct 15, 2018

I did it with some smaller tools for back-turning somewhat close to the chuck. What I did is rough out the L shapes oversize and epoxy them to the tool shanks, then finish mill them to the correct thickness and parallel to the 2 exposed sides of the smaller shank. I'm happy with the result.

Something to watch for when spacing small shanks out in the Z direction is ensuring that your clamping screws/wedges/whatever are making good contact and not hanging way off the edge of the shank.

wheelieking71 · Oct 16, 2018

When I really need to be on center: I keep a set of feeler gauges in one of the drawers by the lathe.
A feeler gauge removed from the pack and installed under the stick, makes a great shim.
And, for some reason it seems, tools always need to be raised to center? Weird.

Guest · Oct 16, 2018

Why not. I have put shimmed up 3/8" square shank tools in a machine designed for 3/4". Right not I only have machines designed for 3/8" square shanks and 3/4" square shanks yet I have plenty of 1/2" shank tools left over from a machine I scrapped out. Those 1/2" tools are either getting milled down or shimmed up. They work just fine.

Mtndew · Oct 16, 2018

litlerob1 said:
I just grab a piece of 1/4" stock and jam it in there.

This is how I've always done it also.
No need to get fancy.

Guest · Oct 16, 2018

litlerob1 said:
I have no idea what you guys are talking about with a "L" shaped stuff. I just grab a piece of 1/4" stock and jam it in there. Turning tools are never really on center anyway. If you need to be really accurate then guess what, I'm a Machinerer of things and stuff, I can machine myself one within .0002" and Parallel to a Gajillionth in about 10 minutes on a BP. "Buy one" sounds silly to me.

R

I got where the L-shaped stuff comes from, they have a barrel turret instead of over head gang, in that case they just need a side shim with a bottom or top shim. The shims don't need to be one piece, just use two.

Ox · Oct 16, 2018

Buy an L shaped block/shim - to save from buying the right sized tool?
Where does this logic come from?
:willy_nilly:

I agree with a cpl of the others above, even a drop of 1/4" HR flat is good enough for most apps.
It doesn't need to be ground in...

--------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

litlerob1 · Oct 16, 2018

Dualkit said:
I got where the L-shaped stuff comes from, they have a barrel turret instead of over head gang, in that case they just need a side shim with a bottom or top shim. The shims don't need to be one piece, just use two.

Oh, I get that. But it's stupid. It's just way over thinking, jam some crap in there so it doesn't move. Use 1/4" chunk of whatever is laying around and get the job done. We have already entered Hacksawville (population: A bunch), might as well just do it with a broken 1/4" Endmill or two or whatever.

R

YorkCNC · Oct 17, 2018

wheelieking71 said:
And, for some reason it seems, tools always need to be raised to center? Weird.

If they were made "right on" then your turret/tool block being a bit high wouldn't be correctable without modifying something, whereas being a bit low can easily be corrected with some shim. Also, being below center results in a better cutting action and less chance of chipping the insert than being above center, so erring toward being low makes sense.

Scruffy887 · Oct 17, 2018

Guessing the L section gets the tool spaced to CL, and also properly to edge for facing clearance? Could put 2 pieces in but in my situation the clamps would only secure the "bottom" spacer with compression. Side spacer would be held in just by the friction of when you tightened the screws while pushing the holder in place. I for sure would not want that spacer sliding out. Could make a very expensive noise. Maybe spring pin together, or even just a pin or weld blob at the end so it gets trapped, cannot slide out.

NAST555 · Oct 17, 2018

Yeah, no issue with it.
On my big Takisawa I made L shapes so that it takes 25mm tools instead of 32mm. Made a bunch of them with matching wedge clamps for the holders. No need for stupid hard to get to bolts to hold your tools down, just fasten the wedge in. I over killed it and ground them in sets but I had/have 25mm tooling all over the place since it is the norm in my shop and all other machines use them. The L helps to get them straight so it is the only reason why I made those like that.

I have a Iscar Penta holder that I use every now and again on my machines that are made for 25mm shanks and just took a 10mm plate and ground it to 9mm. It stays in a box with the holder, I don't use it often enough for it to stay in the turret.

Adapting 3/4" lathe tooling to 1" holder- Stupid or doable?

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