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Advice for a switching careers into CNC..what should I be reading up on?

Kenbone

Plastic
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Location
CT
If this is not the most appropriate forum..mods please remove

Long story short been at a software/hardware company in the tech support department for 4 years. I have no college training, I started in the manufacturing dept and worked my way up. Its not a manufacturing dept with machines or anything...I would setup pcs, network bridges, routers, ect for testing and then ship to the customer. A spot opened up for more money in the tech support department which I jumped on.

Ive always been really intrigued by CNC machines and everything involved with them. I work full time and make a okay living but im pretty bored of this field and frankly i've hit a glass ceiling. After looking around for a class that would fit my schedule I finally found a night class at a community college that is focused on CNC programming but not too much on manual machines. Its pretty short class but its a start, everything else is full time during the day which I can do while working.Certificate in CNC Machining

Advice on which 2 elective's I should take?

Certificate in CNC Machining
  • MFG*H104 Manufacturing Processes 4
  • CAD*H150 CAD 2D 3
  • MFG*H106 Computer-Aided Mfg I 3
  • MFG*H201 Computer-Aided Mfg. II 3
  • Elective Directed Elective 3
  • Elective Directed Electiveâ€* 3
  • Total Credit Hours 19


*Directed Electives:
  • CAD*H200 3D CAD Modeling
  • CAD*H220 Parametric Design
  • EET*H102 Electrical Applications
  • MAT*H172 College Algebra (or higher level Mathematics course)
  • MEC*H114 Statics
  • MEC*H251 Materials Strengths
  • Any MFG* course
  • PHY*H121 General Physics I
  • PHY*H122 General Physics II
  • TCN*H101 Introduction to Engineering Technology


Im hoping after this course I can end up in a shop but I have no idea whats out there machine wise. If I don't know what machines I might end up using what would be the best things to be well versed in? I see a few programs out there to play around with like NCPlot for instance. But I would like to be versed in whatever might be the most common area's if you guys have any advice..?

Thanks and sorry for the long winded post..I dont really know anyone who does this stuff for a living.
 
If this is not the most appropriate forum..mods please remove

Long story short been at a software/hardware company in the tech support department for 4 years. I have no college training, I started in the manufacturing dept and worked my way up. Its not a manufacturing dept with machines or anything...I would setup pcs, network bridges, routers, ect for testing and then ship to the customer. A spot opened up for more money in the tech support department which I jumped on.

Ive always been really intrigued by CNC machines and everything involved with them. I work full time and make a okay living but im pretty bored of this field and frankly i've hit a glass ceiling. After looking around for a class that would fit my schedule I finally found a night class at a community college that is focused on CNC programming but not too much on manual machines. Its pretty short class but its a start, everything else is full time during the day which I can do while working.Certificate in CNC Machining

Advice on which 2 elective's I should take?

Certificate in CNC Machining
  • MFG*H104 Manufacturing Processes 4
  • CAD*H150 CAD 2D 3
  • MFG*H106 Computer-Aided Mfg I 3
  • MFG*H201 Computer-Aided Mfg. II 3
  • Elective Directed Elective 3
  • Elective Directed Electiveâ€* 3
  • Total Credit Hours 19


*Directed Electives:
  • CAD*H200 3D CAD Modeling
  • CAD*H220 Parametric Design
  • EET*H102 Electrical Applications
  • MAT*H172 College Algebra (or higher level Mathematics course)
  • MEC*H114 Statics
  • MEC*H251 Materials Strengths
  • Any MFG* course
  • PHY*H121 General Physics I
  • PHY*H122 General Physics II
  • TCN*H101 Introduction to Engineering Technology


Im hoping after this course I can end up in a shop but I have no idea whats out there machine wise. If I don't know what machines I might end up using what would be the best things to be well versed in? I see a few programs out there to play around with like NCPlot for instance. But I would like to be versed in whatever might be the most common area's if you guys have any advice..?

Thanks and sorry for the long winded post..I dont really know anyone who does this stuff for a living.
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many jobs can be quite different as their cnc machines can be different brands and models. also CadCam changes often yearly quite a bit. many places have special names for tools and methods and have their own way of doing work.
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what one company considers important another company can consider a waste of time.
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just doing specific setups and running programs often you have to learn hundreds of setups and programs. quite often stuff is not specific in setup sheets and programs. when you find or get a job i recommend have a pad of paper and a pencil and take notes. most places when teaching do not want to repeat themselves when they tell you or show you what to do.
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by the way learn to read and write gcode with pencil and paper. i had a job interview for mastercam programmer and in interview they ask me to write program from scratch using pencil and paper. they ask nothing about my ability to do mastercam. i was out of practice hand writing gcode with pencil and paper and no gcode examples to start with.
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1/2 hour of practicing and i could easily read and write gcode again. i should say i already could read and write gcode. but doing it without a book, gcode list or examples is much harder to do. in a job interview they will have little patience for delay or being unsure of stuff. literally you might have 1 minute at the most to write gcode by hand.
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by the way gcode used varies depending on parameters set in cnc for example
G43 H1 X0. Y0. Z0. will add tool comp to just Z or all 3 XY and Z depending on parameters set at cnc. if you say using XYZ on same line with G43 H1 is called is bad practice they may label you inexperienced or not know what you are talking about even though on some cnc it is a very bad practice cause tool length comp will effect every axis in the line of code. just saying sometimes there is no one correct answer at all times but job interviewer maybe only aware of just one answer. best to be polite even if you disagree at job interview
 
I would max out on all the CAD CAM they offer, programming and being able to work with solids is what differentiates the pay scale at most organizations. A good programmer can make 2-3x more than a good setup person, and 4-5x more than an operator (I made those number up). A couple of caveats: even if you go to the most bang up school in the world, you are going to still need to work your way up the totem pole. While a trade school adds a good foundation, it basically qualifies you to run a broom and a push the green button. Over time, if you keep your skills constantly improving, you will move up. If they are not teaching the latest in CAD CAM, you might be wasting your time. Spend a couple of weeks looking over the help wanted, and you get a feeling for what sort of software packages are being used in your area, and what sort of skills are demand.

If I were starting over, I would strive to be an expert on Mastercam and Solidworks. Multi-Axis programming, Turn Mill, and depending on the mfg base around there, a working knowledge of robots. The down side is that to be a good programmer, you need quite a few years of seeing/ feeling/ hearing machines run, and looked over thousands of set-ups to know what works and what doesn't.

You need to have a working knowledge of understanding g-code. I wouldn't get to carried away with learning to write g-code (other than for the aforementioned reason), if I had to write anything but the most basic code at the machine, I would be looking for a new job. It's just a shop that is likely not going to survive/ excel.
 
very much depends where you get a job. many places never use Mastercam and either use different program like ProE, NX, Gibbscam, etc or some places only do Conversational Programming like on Mazaks
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also i as a cnc operator made $75,000 last year and many programmers do not make anywhere close to that. do not over look overtime pay. getting paid 1.5x normal pay rate for over time work adds up. literally i made over $5/hr more at my old job but at the end of the year i made far less money. literally like $18,000 less
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not every cnc operator job or programmer job pays the same. literally can vary 50 to 200% by end of the year.
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usually a bigger company even if you start at lower pay often you have greater chance of working your way up. i have gotten 5 pay raises in a little over 4 years. other places you get starting pay (might even be higher pay) and stay at that pay rate for much longer periods of time
 
Thank you guys for the advice looks like I have a bunch of research to do with the surrounding companies as to what they use. Seems like most of them are not sharing the exact skills needed. I just sent an email to a place like 10 mins from my house not applying for a job just inquiring about what they use.

I wish there was like a Khan Academy for CNC lol

also i as a cnc operator made $75,000 last year and many programmers do not make anywhere close to that. do not over look overtime pay. getting paid 1.5x normal pay rate for over time work adds up.

I've been salary for so long I dream of overtime lol. Its not like we work 35 hour weeks either. I would embrace overtime with loving arms if it was offered.
 
I would max out on all the CAD CAM they offer, programming and being able to work with solids is what differentiates the pay scale at most organizations.

I don't disagree with this, but I think it's really important to clarify something: without knowing how to be a machinist, knowing all of the CAD/CAM software in the world doesn't make a lick of difference.

If I had to pick someone to be a CNC programmer, I'd rather teach a good machinist how to use CAM, then teach someone who knows CAM how to be a machinist.

Kenbone - It can be tough to get started in the business if you want to make more than minimum wage (because let's face it: new "machinists" cost more to employ than they're worth as employees, until they're up to speed and productive, which can take quite a while.) One thing you have going for you in that regard, is that you can get your foot in the door at a company as their part-time IT person, and part-time apprentice machinist. It'll be on you to keep the pressure on and push to learn everything you can. And since you're a smart, technology-savvy person, you can learn how to use any of the CAD/CAM programs in your free time. There's a ton of videos and tutorials out there for that (but very little in the way of quality machinist training, past the absolute basics.)

Good luck!
 
I don't disagree with this, but I think it's really important to clarify something: without knowing how to be a machinist, knowing all of the CAD/CAM software in the world doesn't make a lick of difference.

If I had to pick someone to be a CNC programmer, I'd rather teach a good machinist how to use CAM, then teach someone who knows CAM how to be a machinist.

Kenbone - It can be tough to get started in the business if you want to make more than minimum wage (because let's face it: new "machinists" cost more to employ than they're worth as employees, until they're up to speed and productive, which can take quite a while.) One thing you have going for you in that regard, is that you can get your foot in the door at a company as their part-time IT person, and part-time apprentice machinist. It'll be on you to keep the pressure on and push to learn everything you can. And since you're a smart, technology-savvy person, you can learn how to use any of the CAD/CAM programs in your free time. There's a ton of videos and tutorials out there for that (but very little in the way of quality machinist training, past the absolute basics.)

Good luck!

How can you program something you know nothing about? I think people see it done on the Internet or tv and think hell it's just draw some lines click a few tabs send it to the machine and hit start...I can do that!!
 
I'll second the recommendation for all of CAD you can get. I'd look to make sure the 3D package they are teaching lines up with what your prospective employers are using. Solidworks is quite popular around here. This would open opportunities to find employment as a either a CAD technician for a manufacturing company and/or programming support for a machine shop. You might be able to easily convert that certificate into an associates in manufacturing engineering technology later. Once you get your foot in the door, a larger company might even offer tuition assistance to help pay for it.
 
How can you program something you know nothing about? I think people see it done on the Internet or tv and think hell it's just draw some lines click a few tabs send it to the machine and hit start...I can do that!!

For someone who knows CAD pretty well, it's actually scary-easy to pick up a CAM package and start cranking out programs - but God help the poor operator who has to try to use them.
 
I know this is a super old post. But I wanted to thank everyone who commented.

Not long after I made this initial post, I started classes and then shortly after I got a job offer in a R/D group as a tech at manufacturing facility. A guy I knew was the supervisor and had somebody leave so they needed somebody who was trainable. Starting school was the edge I needed to get me hired though when it came to upper management.

I've taken a Cad class and a G code class and im now taking a Mastercam class. Im familiar with the program but a long way from being proficient in it. Luckily I have guys in my group who are more than willing to show me stuff on the job. One of which is a very experienced tool and die maker who specialized in R/D and is very willing to teach what hes learned over the year.

As a tech im thrown all over the place between loading up furnaces/prepping parts to lapping to using our brand new surface grinder to ordering parts and everything else. I still havent gotten to use the CNC Mill yet but the opportunity is there. The tolerances are kinda insane for my first manufacturing job but im glad to have it more challenging than super loose. This place deals with semiconductor chucks. Everyday is a new learning experience.

My career change was a good move and I have been extremely happy. Because I like what I do, I bust my as$ because it really doesnt feel like work. When they see me busting my ass working as many hours as they offer it gets recognized. Its quite tough to work full time and go to night school but its rewarding, im 6 classes in so far total.

Thanks all again!!
 
Congrats on the new career path. I'll reiterate what I said a couple of years ago. Become a subject matter expert on the software. Spend as much time as they'll let you watching machines run and understand what the various cutting parameters sound like and the finishes that they yield. I've been doing this for 25+ years and I can still sit and watch a machine run all day long and cogitate on the cutting conditions. Never walk by a set-up without understanding it and committing it to memory. I get a weird part and I can think back to something I saw once that might work again. Good luck
 
Im hoping after this course I can end up in a shop but I have no idea whats out there machine wise. If I don't know what machines I might end up using what would be the best things to be well versed in? I see a few programs out there to play around with like NCPlot for instance. But I would like to be versed in whatever might be the most common area's if you guys have any advice..?

Thanks and sorry for the long winded post..I dont really know anyone who does this stuff for a living.


First off, hanging around places like this is a good thing. Secondly, a FREE subscription to periodicals like Modern Machine Shop and American Machinist can help.

There are some other places on the web, and You Tube has some great stuff too.

Ultimately, you'll need to get into a shop - entry level, and start doing.

It will work out.
 
First off, hanging around places like this is a good thing. Secondly, a FREE subscription to periodicals like Modern Machine Shop and American Machinist can help.

There are some other places on the web, and You Tube has some great stuff too.

Ultimately, you'll need to get into a shop - entry level, and start doing.

It will work out.

Thanks so much for the encouraging words. I did land a job in shop working around some very experienced machinists and tool/die makers. We have a large variety of different machines (edm, cnc mills, manual lathes, surface grinders, lapping machines to name a few). I kinda do a little bit of everything and learn on the job from the old timers. I dont know if ill be able to call myself a full time machinist but I can say ill be pretty well rounded if I stay at this shop. Also they machine mostly silicon carbide so i'm working some very tough materials. I would imagine it will hurt me if I leave to go somewhere else that works with metal. So any chance I can get to work on say on making an aluminum fixture I jump on it.
 
Below is my experience with programming/machining.

I did a two-year Manufacturing technology program which was 95% CNC programming/setup.
I spent a lot more time with the programming side of things because I thought I wanted to be strictly a programmer because I didn't want to be running the machines. Well, things don't quite work like that in real life. I regret not spending more time with fixturing/workholding/setups.

Got my first job as an operator after I finished school and it opened my eyes. I am now almost 3 years in this trade and I definitely think different now than when I was at school.
The first few months as a load/unload parts/button pusher taught me how the workpiece to be machined is held in a vice and or chuck. I saw many different setups with many custom fixtures and was overwhelmed by it at first.
After about 6 months I started to realize that it will take more than a couple of years to be competent at machining.
There is a lot more to machining than programming. In fact programming is one of the easier parts of the job for someone that does it all. How you are going to hold the workpiece and thinking about the machining strategy is the hardest part in my opinion. You have to know these two things first. Your programming knowledge you gained in school means nothing if you don't know those other two things.

There are some people out there who are strictly programmers but that is a rare thing in this trade/industry.

If you think you will only want to program CNC machines then you might have to re-think your decision. It may or may not work.
 
very much depends where you get a job. many places never use Mastercam and either use different program like ProE, NX, Gibbscam, etc or some places only do Conversational Programming like on Mazaks
.
also i as a cnc operator made $75,000 last year and many programmers do not make anywhere close to that. do not over look overtime pay. getting paid 1.5x normal pay rate for over time work adds up. literally i made over $5/hr more at my old job but at the end of the year i made far less money. literally like $18,000 less
.
not every cnc operator job or programmer job pays the same. literally can vary 50 to 200% by end of the year.
.
usually a bigger company even if you start at lower pay often you have greater chance of working your way up. i have gotten 5 pay raises in a little over 4 years. other places you get starting pay (might even be higher pay) and stay at that pay rate for much longer periods of time

Please capitalize your sentences.
 
Different machines and finding your niche can be a challenge. What ever the job will bring to you right now will be the best decision. It is a morass of decision for sure.
 
Only advice I can offer is what someone mentioned above. I would never hire a programmer that did not have machinist experience. It seems the trend in the USA these days to want to be the guy that sits at the computer and makes it all work. I know of a huge local company losing their tail lately because of all their personnel issues.

There is WAY too much to learn and understand about machines to even think you can be an effective programmer without experience.

Take a peek at my thread from earlier today. I am experienced and STILL taking a bath in ignorance every now an again. The reality though is I KNEW where the issue was going to be even when I programmed it. What I should have done is test cuts BEFORE I even programmed the part. To the ignorant programmer, this part might have made it all the way to a machine and first article and an idiot operator making a total scrap part to see that it won't work.

You really need the hands on experience with machines to know how to be a badass in programming. You have to know it ALL! Tooling costs, tool life, strategies to optimize a tool, what parameters a tool wants, what paths work best. Do you need it fast or do you need it to last?
 
Only advice I can offer is what someone mentioned above. I would never hire a programmer that did not have machinist experience. It seems the trend in the USA these days to want to be the guy that sits at the computer and makes it all work. I know of a huge local company losing their tail lately because of all their personnel issues.

There is WAY too much to learn and understand about machines to even think you can be an effective programmer without experience.

Take a peek at my thread from earlier today. I am experienced and STILL taking a bath in ignorance every now an again. The reality though is I KNEW where the issue was going to be even when I programmed it. What I should have done is test cuts BEFORE I even programmed the part. To the ignorant programmer, this part might have made it all the way to a machine and first article and an idiot operator making a total scrap part to see that it won't work.

You really need the hands on experience with machines to know how to be a badass in programming. You have to know it ALL! Tooling costs, tool life, strategies to optimize a tool, what parameters a tool wants, what paths work best. Do you need it fast or do you need it to last?

One thing nobody likes in this shop (myself included) is a college grad who can only program or who cant run manual machines lol. I make it a point to look at setups and help as much as possible. The end goal is to be able to write a program, setup the materials and tool changer if need be, and run the program. I hate sitting behind a desk all day long anyways more fun to be in the shop getting my hands dirty.
 








 
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