Aluminium Bronze - Tooling

JD42 · Oct 22, 2013

Hey guys I'm a new kid on the block when it comes to the forum and only recently getting in CNC machining as explained in my little thread here in the general section;

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/just-saying-hello-273846/

Basically I'm looking to tool up for a smallish milling job in aluminium bronze, they'll be coming in 2-5offs every sort of few months to start with I imagine. The company I'm working for is only just getting into CNC machines (we've just got two Hurcos VM1P and a TM6) and we don't exactly have a huge variety of tools, mainly un-coated HSS cutters or un-coated Carbide cutters.

The job is about 120mm long and about 30mm wide and involves exterior profiling, internal pockets 13mm wide x 110 long x 16 deep with 3mm rads in the corners, 2 ballnose slots/pockets and 6off 2mm wide x 11mm long x 17mm deep slots.

Has anyone got much experience in this material? Just want to know what sort of cutter material/coating is going to get me the results I'm after, my colleague swears by carbide for anything harder that mild steel! But I think with the right coated HSS cutters I'd get a better result.

The only tool holders ive got at the moment are ER32 collet's as well, do i need something more rigid?

Basically what do I need to be convincing my boss man to fork out the cash for?

I'm coming from manual to CNC so any advice on speeds or feeds would be great too, still getting used to relying on numbers rather than feeling/seeing/hearing whats cutting right haha.

thanks in advance for any help!

Limy Sami · Oct 22, 2013

IME Alu bronze is tough and quite abrasive, tools have to be sharp, but it will wear HSS unless you keep the speed down to 60 - 80ft / min, and I've found coated HSS cutters to fare little better.

Uncoated carbide will be the way to go for higher cutting speed.

Whatever you do, make sure the tool is cutting on every tooth and not rubbing.

On pocketing work make sure to flush the chips away.

BOSTON · Oct 22, 2013

Also use a corner round on mills...round insert for face mills work real good

JD42 · Oct 22, 2013

cool thanks man, might be able to get away with what we've got then, we just don't really have any in between point at the moment, its either basic HSS or Carbide, there's going to be a point i'm going to have to get my boss to get me the correct tools for the job, guess he lucked out this time

.

Any good SFM or feed charts knocking about on the internet at the moment for this kind of thing?

zero_divide · Oct 22, 2013

JD42 said:
cool thanks man, might be able to get away with what we've got then, we just don't really have any in between point at the moment, its either basic HSS or Carbide, there's going to be a point i'm going to have to get my boss to get me the correct tools for the job, guess he lucked out this time .

Any good SFM or feed charts knocking about on the internet at the moment for this kind of thing?

I have added a whole Aluminum bronze/copper alloys to my online calculator a while ago I think i have around 15 different alloys there.
A user has requested information for some Ampco alloys and gaging from his feedback he is pretty happy.
FSWizard

Bobw · Oct 22, 2013

Already been said,, massively, insanely abrasive. HSS, you are looking at sub mild steel speeds and you are still going to be changing tools as they wear away.

Carbide, you can get up to some pretty good speeds, not quite aluminum speeds, but not very far off. SHARP tools, think aluminum style geometries.

On the abrasive thing, I've had to do some rework from drills and reamers becoming tapered tools, it just wears them out.

Try and deburr in the machine as much as humanly possible. Hitting that crap with a deburr tool is worse than a classroom of 2nd graders scratching the chalk board.

JD42 · Oct 23, 2013

Thanks guys I'll let you know how I get on.
You think I could profile it at full depth (20mm) with a decent carbide end mill (if I can find one) there's only a couple of mm to come off the outside.
And for the pocketing in this one do I want a 2 flute to chuck out the chips or a meaty 3 flute then finish with the 6mm for the rads? ?

JD42 · Oct 23, 2013

zero_divide said:
I have added a whole Aluminum bronze/copper alloys to my online calculator a while ago I think i have around 15 different alloys there.
A user has requested information for some Ampco alloys and gaging from his feedback he is pretty happy.
FSWizard

This is super cool I'll definitely be trying this out! Cheers!

Red James · Oct 23, 2013

JD42 said:
Thanks guys I'll let you know how I get on.
You think I could profile it at full depth (20mm) with a decent carbide end mill (if I can find one) there's only a couple of mm to come off the outside.
And for the pocketing in this one do I want a 2 flute to chuck out the chips or a meaty 3 flute then finish with the 6mm for the rads? ?

You have a CNC, why screw up the 3 mm radial corners with with a 6 mm cutter? Use something smaller (5 mm) and definitely use carbide tooling. It is cheaper than HSS now.

JD42 · Oct 23, 2013

Red James said:
You have a CNC, why screw up the 3 mm radial corners with with a 6 mm cutter? Use something smaller (5 mm) and definitely use carbide tooling. It is cheaper than HSS now.

Good point! hopefully we have one or i'll be in the office pleading my case to the boss man.

He doesnt like parting with money unless its to buy another Audi ha

toolmaker96 · Oct 23, 2013

Aluminum Bronze moves all over the place. Make sure you leave stock for re squaring & getting flat, after you have roughed the majority of the material out.

JD42 · Nov 4, 2013

Everything went swimmingly apart from a teeeeennnyy bit of chatter on the exterior profile, cant seem to get rid of it

it polishes off in literally two strokes but id like to not have to really!!

JD42 · Nov 4, 2013

couple of pic's of the part in question

pa4445 · Nov 4, 2013

Parts look pretty good.

To get rid of the chatter I would try a solid end mill holder, and get your feed up to at least .004" per tooth.

scadvice · Nov 4, 2013

How long is the cut and what diameter endmill did you say you used used? I looks like cutter bounce and could be from the end mill hanging to far out. Could be holder but I don't think so... more like too low of feed rate compounded by cutter not being up in the holder far enough.

JD42 · Nov 5, 2013

Its 13mm deep and I'm finishing with a 16mm carbide endmill in an ER collet holder, feed is .065mm per flute, cutters hanging out 20mm. Surface speed is around 75 m/min.

JD42 · Nov 5, 2013

so my feed needs to be nearer .1mm per flute for the finish you think? need to invest in some solid holders again, will have to pester the boss but im not hopeful.

Fubu · Jun 18, 2019

What is the number of the AL. bronze? I made some blocks that the print called for C954. It is harder than steel to work with and dulls HSS quick. I got smart and made the next batch out of C932 and is much easier, similar to brass. If I remember brass is around 67 on scale they use and C954 was around 187 on the hardness. Miserable stuff but tough as hell. I asked bronze house how they told them apart. He said color coded was only way to know. I figured if he can't tell the difference in the material, the customer will never know. The paet would never wear out, no repeat business!

Vancbiker · Jun 18, 2019

Fubu said:
What is the number of the AL. bronze? I made some blocks that the print called for C954. It is harder than steel to work with and dulls HSS quick. I got smart and made the next batch out of C932 and is much easier, similar to brass. If I remember brass is around 67 on scale they use and C954 was around 187 on the hardness. Miserable stuff but tough as hell. I asked bronze house how they told them apart. He said color coded was only way to know. I figured if he can't tell the difference in the material, the customer will never know. The paet would never wear out, no repeat business!

What's your point in digging up a 6 year old thread? If the OP hasn't gotten through the job by now nothing you have to add is gonna help.

That's a pretty cavalier attitude about a customer material spec too.

guest · Jun 18, 2019

Vancbiker said:
That's a pretty cavalier attitude about a customer material spec too.

That's what I was thinking. If the callout is for aluminum bronze, there's a reason.

He takes it on himself to change the customer's part, then he posts about it on the Internet? :nutter:

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