Any new technology in the machining world? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    In laser turning. What is the propose of spinning the laser to have that helical output? To spread the beam out back/forth to angle-wash the slag out?

    I’ve got very little laser experience (50w fiber laser engraver) bit laser drilling with it I find micro material buildup gets in the way of the beam and starts a prosses or re welding vs new material removal.
    But the fixed head and relatively small effective focal distance only allows for shallow cutting (1mm)
    They are a neat “new ish” tech to the masses with cheap Chinese units priced for anyone with bulk marking to do

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    Commoditization and diffusion. What percentage of shops/machinists had probes or things like haimers 30 years ago? 15? This year? There's surely quite a list of things that were "exotic" or "very costly" not so long ago, and now 1/3 or 1/2 or "most" shops/machinists are using some form of them.

    Sometimes this is things have gotten relatively cheaper (VMCs), sometimes just more accepted (probes), sometimes cheaper alternates (haimers and similar can work in most any machine.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    Commoditization and diffusion. What percentage of shops/machinists had probes or things like haimers 30 years ago? 15? This year? There's surely quite a list of things that were "exotic" or "very costly" not so long ago, and now 1/3 or 1/2 or "most" shops/machinists are using some form of them.

    Sometimes this is things have gotten relatively cheaper (VMCs), sometimes just more accepted (probes), sometimes cheaper alternates (haimers and similar can work in most any machine.)
    Back in 1984, after 14 years of plant engineering in aircraft industry, where I implemented first probes, I switched to CNC machine tools marketing, selling OKK, Kitamura, Wasino, Bridgeport, Elgamill Butler and some others. I did it for four years. The amount of probing equipment sold with the machines jumped significantly during this period. After that I started my own business, where probing was one of the main activities. But, exactly as I mentioned before regarding the machines, the probes did not changed significantly too. Until this very day the probe is technologically the same as it was when implemented by Sir David McMurtry of Renishaw back in 73. Anxiously looking for some real break through.

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    Right. And the haimer/tschorn (sp) etc are just a portable variation - important for making it easier to apply the idea, but fundamentally the same thing.

    Or consider something like a Tormach - no fundamental innovations in machining - all of the innovations are in sourcing, packaging, pricing, marketing, and therefore diffusion.

    (In other words, just more support for PROBE's argument.)

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    The real innovation in machining the last 20 years has been the Process. Yes, fundamentally you are still removing material. But how you do that now is likely quite different than it was 20 years ago from a process standpoint. It's not a single thing, it's a whole bunch of little things that add up to a considerable amount of change in the industry. Most of those are already mentioned in this thread. I did notice nobody mentioned the coolant. I also noticed nobody mentioned the measuring equipment.

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    None of these are brand new… probably more like things that have become more visible and available in maybe the last 5-10 years.


    - The latest generation of twin-spindle dental-specific crown making machines are fairly amazing. The entire “package” to pull that off (scanning someone’s mouth, quickly doing the tweaking and prep work and then the CAM) appears to be quite refined and FAST. CEREC | Dentsply Sirona

    - Waterjet laser cutting is slick, and I see this as a technology that may cut into the wire edm industry, (for certain types of parts that don’t require absolute accuracy): Waterjet laser cutting of high-aspect honeycomb / Wasserstrahl-Laserschneiden von einem Wabenmuster - YouTube

    - For tooling, the Emuge punch tap is pretty amazing, though lends itself best to the automotive industry I believe, where things are just assembled once. Pushing the boundaries with Punch Tapping from Siemens, Emuge, and Hermle - YouTube


    As far as LFV applied to turning (or other metalworking processes), well… there’s this: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0774305.pdf

    When it comes to additive machines combined with 3 to 5 axis mills, I “believe” that one of the main uses of those machines is for making mold cores with integral (and conforming) cooling passages. Very slick for that. I’ve personally never been a fan of “multi-function” machines (much like the printer, scanner, copier machines that are sold) — “OK” at all 3 things, but not really optimal for any of them compared to a standalone device. I can’t remember if it was IMTS ’14 or ’16, but GF had an additive machine sitting right next to a Mikron mill, and using Erowa pallets, and a robot would swap the part(s) back and forth from one machine to the other for “growing” and machining.

    PM

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    That waterjet laser is incredible. Makes a ton of sense too.

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    Y axis parting's pretty neat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    That waterjet laser is incredible. Makes a ton of sense too.
    I had some correspondence with Dan Gelbart about waterjet lasers recently and he confirmed my suspicion that while it is crazy cool, it may a bit of a solution looking for a problem. The telltale sign is the fact that it's been around for a long time and there are many patents, but there hasn't been much if any commercialization thus far. Dan argues it's kind of in between EDM and Waterjet but maybe not good enough compared to EDM to displace it, and properly set up waterjet is pretty good on thicker cuts because of the self focusing effect. This Avionsys outfit does seem to be the first attempt at making a general purpose machine, although you seem to be able to buy the laser head and pump but its not clear if you can get a turn key cutting system. I'm sure we shall all watch this keenly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcoope View Post
    I had some correspondence with Dan Gelbart about waterjet lasers recently and he confirmed my suspicion that while it is crazy cool, it may a bit of a solution looking for a problem. The telltale sign is the fact that it's been around for a long time and there are many patents, but there hasn't been much if any commercialization thus far. Dan argues it's kind of in between EDM and Waterjet but maybe not good enough compared to EDM to displace it, and properly set up waterjet is pretty good on thicker cuts because of the self focusing effect. This Avionsys outfit does seem to be the first attempt at making a general purpose machine, although you seem to be able to buy the laser head and pump but its not clear if you can get a turn key cutting system. I'm sure we shall all watch this keenly.
    Ok I thought that was just bad grammar. I’m a little wiser a few YouTube videos later, but what’s the benefit of the combination? Water jet rough cuts and laser finishes?

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    From what I saw it's a combined process - that is the stream of water and the laser interact - as noted above, it's not completely clear what this is for.

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    It looks like the laser does all the cutting and the waterjet just flushes the cut area, not unlike a WEDM. I'd guess the challenge is being able to project a laser through the waterjet consistently and accurately.

    Just glancing at it, benefits over WEDM would include:

    - No starter holes necessary
    - Higher speed, especially for thinner materials, e.g. < 1"
    - Fewer consumables, i.e. no wire
    - Not having to worry about part drops hitting a lower guide

    Main drawback would be lower accuracy and surface finish that you'd get with WEDM's finishing passes. Our Makino U3 typically finishes to 16 microinch RA and repeats within 0.0001" in four passes. The first roughing pass takes about 50% of the time, and the next three passes combined take up the remaining 50%.

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    So here's a "is this new" question - when did thread mills first appear? Seems to me they require CNC, or else some kind of very elaborate boring head thing - so maybe they are a relatively new tool, or maybe the first NC machines in the '50s or '60s had them?

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    It’s not gonna help anyone on the shop floor cutting today, but I’m gonna say readily accessible software such as fusion
    360 and online education. Practical machinist, YouTube, nyccnc, Titans academy.

    It’s getting knowledge into people at no cost to employers, training new people. Gathering interest for the trade/design work.
    Truly awesome IMO.

    As for cutting tools, the trend of more flutes and stiffer core in solid carbide has been nice

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    Nothing is ever a giant leap forward, its the sum total of every single incremental improvement. How many years has brother been getting those tool changes .1sec faster or table accel numbers fractions of a G up, bit by bit by bit.

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    @Stirling - also Instagram to my surprize - if you follow the right people they're posts can be quite informative. (And just like youtube there's lots of drivel of on instagram...)
    (That's in ADDITION to PM, youtube, etc.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    There's already some on the market - DMG-Mori is one:

    DMG MORI: Unbelievable New Additive & Subtractive Technologies! - YouTube [sorry for the Titan link]
    There's one of the Huge Mill-Turns in our back shop. Its pretty wild, No windows to see in, just monitors.

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    Is there ever a groundbreaking new thing?
    Baby steps and then one looks back and it is amazing how the tiny steps have added up.
    One that people went crazy in love with and talked about as big news was the Hexapod and we know where that went.
    Bob

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