Any other good options besides Haas CM1 for micro machining?? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PriddyShiddy View Post
    They quoted me well over $100K for a USED M8... don't think that neo existed a few months back when I talked to them. Interesting little machine, but dumb as f&%* I have to join their mailing list to see the brochure. Don't matter, I am sure it's far enough north of $100K it doesn't even remember passing it
    Mailinator is handy sometimes. Try this http://click1.clickrouter.com/redire...%253AiSltDGoOL. It may or may not work.

    Their website guys aren't the greatest, as they have a website for the Neo, The Smartphone Approach for Milling Machine | DATRON neo, which has all the info, but doesn't appear to be linked from their company website.

    The Datron machines look pretty slick, but I've never heard of one in the wild, and it's very hard to find any info about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    Why a small engraver instead of a micro endmill (square or ball end)?
    Because I need a 60° taper

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    Mailinator is handy sometimes. Try this http://click1.clickrouter.com/redire...%253AiSltDGoOL. It may or may not work.

    Their website guys aren't the greatest, as they have a website for the Neo, The Smartphone Approach for Milling Machine | DATRON neo, which has all the info, but doesn't appear to be linked from their company website.

    The Datron machines look pretty slick, but I've never heard of one in the wild, and it's very hard to find any info about them.
    Never heard of Mailinator. Pretty slick. The brochure confirmed my suspicions: NOT for production and WILL be pushing $200K. When Haas adds a $200 tablet to their OM it will probably add $50K too LOL

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    as a guy that spent 7 months with a nex-gen haas POS control before they came and removed it from my shop I would say run don`t walk from it.
    There older control is nice but the nex-gen is junk. I would do Brothers and run 24/7 on the bigger table, swap parts once a day and run it non stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    as a guy that spent 7 months with a nex-gen haas POS control before they came and removed it from my shop I would say run don`t walk from it.
    There older control is nice but the nex-gen is junk. I would do Brothers and run 24/7 on the bigger table, swap parts once a day and run it non stop.
    D.D. I created a thread asking for thoughts on the NextGen on the Haas forum... and I think I know which side of that fence you are on I'd love to pick your brain in more detail in that thread if you don't mind

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    Question for you super knowledgeable Haas fellers: Are there any big differences from the 2014 control going back to a 2010 control?

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    Hello, I have a OM-2A (basically the same thing) with 30k rpm spindle since about 7 years. From your work description I think a CM-1 will suit you well.
    I made extensive research when I bought it years ago, back then there where notning else in the same price class. Closest match where small Swiss and Japanese machines which all where at least three times more expensive.
    If you go with CM-1 or OM-2 machines, do get the Rego-fix toolholders. They are really good.

    /Staffan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjugo7 View Post
    Hello, I have a OM-2A (basically the same thing) with 30k rpm spindle since about 7 years. From your work description I think a CM-1 will suit you well.
    I made extensive research when I bought it years ago, back then there where notning else in the same price class. Closest match where small Swiss and Japanese machines which all where at least three times more expensive.
    If you go with CM-1 or OM-2 machines, do get the Rego-fix toolholders. They are really good.

    /Staffan
    Thank you Tjugo7. Do you purchase those locally or do you have an online source? Didnt see any pop up.

    Wrong words courtesy of Tapatalk and Voice To Text. You bar well come.

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    I bought them through the Swedish supplier after informing them about their existence.
    Seems to be available in the US, see link: ISO (Haas) :: rego-fix.com

    /Staffan

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    Quote Originally Posted by PriddyShiddy View Post
    Question for you super knowledgeable Haas fellers: Are there any big differences from the 2014 control going back to a 2010 control?
    I bought a VM2 new in 2012 and it has been just like the old controls, with better/easier probe routines. (I bought my first in '98)But I have not used any year newer than that.

    I also bought a ST10 in 2013 and it seems the same old control in terms of HAAS but my first lathe so not sure if they changed anything in that regard.

    I bought a Bro R450X1 pallet changer in 2015. As soon as it hit the floor I went from needing lots of small parts to smaller quantity's of bigger parts. So my fault on that but I hate that machine with a passion, everything to set it up is slow motion compared to the VM2.
    So with the weekly warmup stir the coolant program it might be up to 35ish hours.

    Its a pallet changer but almost the same footprint as the VM2 so pretty small. Not office machine small.
    I had a deal in place to swap it for a used HAAS vertical but found out at the last min it has the new control. So like you I wonder as there are some that are really fighting it..others not so much.

    Another member here just got a new HAAS so I am looking forward to his report on the control.
    Post up what Makino quotes you on that little Horizontal as that is a slick looking setup!
    Gary

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    If you want the lowest runout collets BIG/Diashowa ERC collets are nearly an order of magnitude better than Regofix (2mm collet measured at 10 times extended length). Their ERC collets are the same dims as ER collets.

    I was using ER-16 collets for this research. We were spinning a lens at 6000rpm trying to focus a beam of optical radiation exactly in the middle of a .25mm x .25mm detector across a 40mm gap-the BIG collets made all the difference. YMMV.

    We did try all collets on the market Regofix were a distant second - you will pay for the Diashowa units though -not quite double the Regofix.

    http://www.productivity.com/wp-conte...%20Catalog.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtaylor View Post
    If you want the lowest runout collets BIG/Diashowa ERC collets are nearly an order of magnitude better than Regofix (2mm collet measured at 10 times extended length). Their ERC collets are the same dims as ER collets.

    I was using ER-16 collets for this research. We were spinning a lens at 6000rpm trying to focus a beam of optical radiation exactly in the middle of a .25mm x .25mm detector across a 40mm gap-the BIG collets made all the difference. YMMV.

    We did try all collets on the market Regofix were a distant second - you will pay for the Diashowa units though -not quite double the Regofix.

    http://www.productivity.com/wp-conte...%20Catalog.pdf
    WOW those are tool-art! At least for the 3 main micro cutters those might save me $45 a day. The two roughing cutters are single flute with a solid body. I was able to get ~30% more tool life by clocking the cutting edge to the high side of the run out (~0.0004-0.0006) but at 30 minutes to clock all three for $45 it's cheaper just to let the machine run and change them sooner. It'll be pretty interesting to see if those make a noticeable difference. Probably pick up both mentioned holders and do a couple week comparison on each. Seriously good info. My tool reps never would have known about these.TY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle1000 View Post
    I bought a VM2 new in 2012 and it has been just like the old controls, with better/easier probe routines. (I bought my first in '98)But I have not used any year newer than that.

    I also bought a ST10 in 2013 and it seems the same old control in terms of HAAS but my first lathe so not sure if they changed anything in that regard.

    I bought a Bro R450X1 pallet changer in 2015. As soon as it hit the floor I went from needing lots of small parts to smaller quantity's of bigger parts. So my fault on that but I hate that machine with a passion, everything to set it up is slow motion compared to the VM2.
    So with the weekly warmup stir the coolant program it might be up to 35ish hours.

    Its a pallet changer but almost the same footprint as the VM2 so pretty small. Not office machine small.
    I had a deal in place to swap it for a used HAAS vertical but found out at the last min it has the new control. So like you I wonder as there are some that are really fighting it..others not so much.

    Another member here just got a new HAAS so I am looking forward to his report on the control.
    Post up what Makino quotes you on that little Horizontal as that is a slick looking setup!
    Gary
    Will do. I would sure like to see that little Makino in person!!

    What makes the Brother slower for set ups? Is it the interface with the control? Probe routines? Or just because of the rotating pallet making it harder to indicate/align etc? Never seen one in person and never thought about that... how the hell do you even indicate a vise if the vise is X FEET away from you on the other side of the pallet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtaylor View Post
    If you want the lowest runout collets BIG/Diashowa ERC collets are nearly an order of magnitude better than Regofix (2mm collet measured at 10 times extended length). Their ERC collets are the same dims as ER collets.
    Of course ER collets are yesterdays news.

    Regofix's current offering is powRgrip.

    About powRgrip(R) :: rego-fix.com

    3μm runout.

    Think Swiss for micro machining ... not just toolholding, machine tools too.

    The usual suspects for your work envelop would be Willemin-Macodel and Bumotec, possibly Mikron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jCandlish View Post
    Of course ER collets are yesterdays news.

    Regofix's current offering is powRgrip.

    About powRgrip(R) :: rego-fix.com

    3μm runout.

    Think Swiss for micro machining ... not just toolholding, machine tools too.

    The usual suspects for your work envelop would be Willemin-Macodel and Bumotec, possibly Mikron.
    Am I missing something? Under "Sales Partners" for USA they only list themselves... and there is no where to order. Or actual information on the ISO PowR grip holders. Any link I click just downloads a PDF on balancing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PriddyShiddy View Post
    Am I missing something? Under "Sales Partners" for USA they only list themselves... and there is no where to order. Or actual information on the ISO PowR grip holders. Any link I click just downloads a PDF on balancing.
    Welcome to the REGO-FIX Distributor Search System.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PriddyShiddy View Post
    That is a snazzy looking set up. Basically a High End Novakon/Tormach machine. Every component looks well sourced/made. I do need more than 8 tools though and my "facing tool" is 1/2" EM. Wouldn't mind the open frame that much... but don't think that is a production machine.
    Without getting to deep into it MDA stuff sucks when compared to an industrial machine. Run far away. I'm tossing the one I inherited at the first opportunity and replacing it with a S300 or short-bed Robodrill ADV.

    With tiny tools you need spindle RPM. These NSK turbines can be made tool changeable on any 30-taper dill tap machine with minimal work -->http://www.nskamericacorp.com/product/category/HTS/17 At 150K RPM it will dramatically improve your tool life and crush any other system mentioned for productivity.

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    Thank you... not sure where the heck I ended up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjugo7 View Post
    Hello, I have a OM-2A (basically the same thing) with 30k rpm spindle since about 7 years. From your work description I think a CM-1 will suit you well.
    I made extensive research when I bought it years ago, back then there where notning else in the same price class. Closest match where small Swiss and Japanese machines which all where at least three times more expensive.
    If you go with CM-1 or OM-2 machines, do get the Rego-fix toolholders. They are really good.

    /Staffan
    How much overhang can you get away with in the Y axis for vises? On my TM2P I have 3" rear and 7" off the front. I am wondering If I could get away with a 15" chick vise or if I need to use their 1030 which is 11.5". I ask because they don't make the fixed jaw set up for the 1030 but they do for the 1040 which would add a little extra usefulness if I did need to use the OM2(if I go used) for another set up.

    Looking at the travels and dimensions I found it shows 26" inside dimension and 20" 'used' with table travel. Can you really hang 3" off front and rear without hitting anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PriddyShiddy View Post
    I didn't say a 30 Taper wasn't up to the snuff. It's over snuff. Too much snuff. More money (for things I don't need) and bigger (takes up space I DO NEED) for more machines. From what I recall Brother wanted $100K for the machines we talked about. That's a LOT of extra money for useless to me features. I'm not milling. No end mills. No drills. No taps. Brother is better than my TM2P for sure but kind of like renting a Uhaul to carry a trash can.
    You have to look at the actual machining time including the accel and deccels on the moves between holes. We would be glad to actually run a test as I have a Brother 27k coming to the Yorba Linda showroom in a week. Maybe two machines would out produce three with less quick response time. I have a customer who moved his parts from a has to a Brother with thousands of holes and cut times in half. I am sure they would share their experiences. Also, depending on when you go pricing, the yen to dollar ratio maybe favoring you a bit now.


    Andy Dukes
    Yamazen

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