Anyone with experience with this brand of VMC?

Been looking at used machines in the $40k area to do whatever comes in the door type of work. From aerospace to medical to car parts. Whatever needs to be done. Been looking at used machines of course at that price point.

My machine dealer forwarded this to me, out the door before new year of like $75k with a 4th axis.

They tout that all the parts are made elsewhere and only assembled in China.

Does anyone have any real world experience with these guys? I have never heard of them before.

SMTCL CNC VMC-85B Vertical Machining Center | Western Machine Sales



Any input would be appreciated as it is a reasonable fast decision I would have to make and nearly double what I had budgeted. Thanks guys.

"They tout that all the parts are made elsewhere and only assembled in China."


So they don't make anything, only assemble and have no idea if spare parts are going to be available next year, let alone 10 years from now.

For $75k, so many more options for real machine tools built by real machine tool companies.

I have seen them new in person.

Machining a large area with 3" face mill. You could clearly see the stepover, and by see I mean see and feel. It appeared that the spindle was floating in Z a few thou or the X-Y was a different plane (out of tram) to the spindle. It could have been that the machine was not level. But it sounded bad, the finish was bad.

You would have to give me a buyback all cost included guarantee with a minimum uptime or else, and long a warranty.

Years ago the european dealers stopped carrying them due to quality if I remember correctly.

This thread has already been open for 7 hours and none of the veterans have stepped in and said buy a Fadal.

Maybe it's just me talking because I don't have any money, but there are really only two reasons to buy new: money to burn and a warranty. Otherwise a well supported, good used model will put you miles ahead of a questionable new machine.

For $40k, you can buy a very nice Haas VF2SS, Haas VF3, Fadal 4020, and many others but you may very well know this already. For $75k, you can certainly get a new name brand machine with only a little smaller envelope and no 4th.

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I don't think you could spend $40k on a Fadal, unless it was a 6030 or greater.

Like he said, for $40k or so, you could put qty3 4020's on your floor right now..

If I had only$70k to burn and a NEW machine was a must, I'd take a chance on a
new Fadal.. At least there are folks/dealers here in this country that really want it to succeed,
and if New Fadal goes tits up, they will at least support you.

If I had 100 or 120 to burn.. I'd probably be looking more towards a Japanese machine.

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like I will pass on this. I was hoping it was some kind of loss leader awesome product they were trying to break into our market with and were giving a whole lot more product than the cost would indicate. Not a old offshore machine they are trying to hit a low price point with.

As to Fadal. The first machine my dealer ran across was a Fadal 4020 with a 4th axis. Didn't get the price because he knows I am VERY wary of buying a product from a company that no longer exists regardless of how many secondary market vendors are around making parts for them. I always worry if the market dries up all those repair part guys are going to be gone and there will be no mothership parts at any price.

Also I was under the impression that the Fadal were Haas level performers or a bit less. If I want to make aerospace stuff and in this area that is a real possibility I would want a very tight machine. When I see everyone dog piling on Haas machines on PM for being very average I usually assume that applies to Fadal too but they aren't even in business anymore. Don't mean to start a Fadal vs Haas argument, just this board is not very nice to Haas at all.

I looked at some Okuma Cadet's but was told they are Taiwanese made and have spindle issues and they cost $10k and Okuma doesn't talk to anyone with a machine more than 10 years old.

So continuing to look. Tons of machines just have to find one in that sweet spot of price to performance.

We make aerospace parts every day on 10 year old Haas machines.

All I got to say about that.

Jaxian said:

As to Fadal. The first machine my dealer ran across was a Fadal 4020 with a 4th axis. Didn't get the price because he knows I am VERY wary of buying a product from a company that no longer exists regardless of how many secondary market vendors are around making parts for them. I always worry if the market dries up all those repair part guys are going to be gone and there will be no mothership parts at any price.

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Think small block chevy, they haven't made the old style from the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's in about 20 years, but you can still
go down to the parts store on the corner and get a water pump for $25. Kind of the same thing with the Fadals, they made a TON
of them.. And they were all essentially the same from the 80's up into the 2000's..

By the time the parts supply and support dries up you will be on to bigger and better things, or dead.

Also I was under the impression that the Fadal were Haas level performers or a bit less. If I want to make aerospace stuff and in this area that is a real possibility I would want a very tight machine.

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Fadals get a bad reputation because people don't MAINTAIN them.. Not accurate, can't take a cut.. Well your bellevilles are shot and your
thrust bearings are toast... A few hundred bucks and a day with an indicator and almost any Fadal will perform like the day it did when it left
the factory.

This machine came to me with over 2/3rds of the bellevilles shattered and a cracked drawbar, there was .019 of lost motion in the Y and
the left end of the X ballscrew is worn .005..(oddly the left is fine) And all the thrust bearings were shot.. A few hundred bucks and
a few days playing with an indicator, I can interpolate a hole with no witness marks, I only bother with cutter comp if I have to hold less
than a .001.. and it'll take a cut. I'll take a 12-14hp cut and not think twice. I've taken over 20 cubes a minute in mild steel, and
the spindle only complained when I got up into the 23 cubes a minute range.



They aren't the best, they aren't the latest, they aren't the greatest.. But they are cheap, and the parts are cheap, and they are
relatively easy to work on.. Plenty of support and parts are so common I'm surprised they don't carry them down at the Pic Quik.

Pick on them all you want... Just makes them cheaper for me.

They aren't the be all and end all... And I will upgrade at some point, hopefully soon.. But they are a lot
of bang for the buck, and they don't cost a lot to keep running.

Bob Makes a great point. My 4020 runs and runs and runs. I'm looking at a 3016 right now in great shape set up with a probe for $5K it will pay for itself in a month. As far as buying new, If you are a small job shop doing a variety of parts I think you can't go wrong with HAAS. Service parts support is a big part of owning these machines and they have that down. Also every guy who walks in my door for a job has run them.

Make Chips Boys !

Ron

I own 6 of these machines, I like them , they are easy to fix, and parts are cheap, fanuc control, and the machine comes with every option available.
I have 3 mills and 3 lathes.

take a look Baum Industrial - CNC Machining, Milling, Turning

Jaxian said:

Been looking at used machines in the $40k area to do whatever comes in the door type of work. From aerospace to medical to car parts. Whatever needs to be done. Been looking at used machines of course at that price point.

My machine dealer forwarded this to me, out the door before new year of like $75k with a 4th axis.

They tout that all the parts are made elsewhere and only assembled in China.

Does anyone have any real world experience with these guys? I have never heard of them before.

SMTCL CNC VMC-85B Vertical Machining Center | Western Machine Sales

View attachment 186759

Any input would be appreciated as it is a reasonable fast decision I would have to make and nearly double what I had budgeted. Thanks guys.

Click to expand...

johnbatchelder said:

I own 6 of these machines, I like them , they are easy to fix, and parts are cheap, fanuc control, and the machine comes with every option available.
I have 3 mills and 3 lathes.

take a look Baum Industrial - CNC Machining, Milling, Turning

Click to expand...

3 year old thread. I ended up getting a Doosan DNM5700 for a screaming deal. Haven't had any complaints about the machine to date. Works fantastic.

Of course you own 6 machines from Baum industrial. You own the company. Not very good at spamming are you?