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    Default Anyone tapping Spiralock threads?

    Hi,

    We are looking at a production job that has significant number of 10-32 Spiralock threads in 316 Stainless. This thread profile is unique to Stanley Spiralock and requires their very expensive taps/thread gages. We don't have any experience with this thread profile and are limited to the few different styles of taps they produce, due to the volume of holes we were leaning towards a cut tap vs thread mill. Appreciate feedback from anyone that has experience with tapping this thread:

    -how well do the Stanely Spiralock taps work in stainless?
    -does the thread gaging work like a regular go/nogo gage?
    -any other tips with the Spiralock thread?

    Thanks in advance for your assistance!

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    Quote Originally Posted by superior_machine View Post
    Hi,

    We are looking at a production job that has significant number of 10-32 Spiralock threads in 316 Stainless. This thread profile is unique to Stanley Spiralock and requires their very expensive taps/thread gages. We don't have any experience with this thread profile and are limited to the few different styles of taps they produce, due to the volume of holes we were leaning towards a cut tap vs thread mill. Appreciate feedback from anyone that has experience with tapping this thread:

    -how well do the Stanely Spiralock taps work in stainless?
    -does the thread gaging work like a regular go/nogo gage?
    -any other tips with the Spiralock thread?

    Thanks in advance for your assistance!
    You don't need to use the Stanley brand, Emuge and other brands have self locking thread taps and thread mills.In fact, I believe Stanley only sells uncoated taps. That's why we've gone with Emuge for the coated ones.
    The only differences that the programmer needs to know is that the tap drill size is different AND it's a one-way thread. Meaning that you can't tap a thru hole and re-run the tap thru from the bottom.
    Other than that, just program as normal.
    I haven't seen anything too outrageous as far as pricing goes they seem relatively normal.
    As for the gages, we haven't purchased any as our customers don't call out any fancy thread tolerances.

    Self Lock™ Taps | Emuge Corporation

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    I looked into this a few years back for an upcoming job. After some research, I decided that for the rest of time, any RFQ that had anything whatsoever to do with Stanley was an automatic no-bid. Fucked up company, and a soul source for spiralock so they have you over a barrel.

    I do believe they make spirolock inserts, spiralock on the i.d. and normal on the od. You might be able to go that route

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I looked into this a few years back for an upcoming job. After some research, I decided that for the rest of time, any RFQ that had anything whatsoever to do with Stanley was an automatic no-bid. Fucked up company, and a soul source for spiralock so they have you over a barrel.

    I do believe they make spirolock inserts, spiralock on the i.d. and normal on the od. You might be able to go that route
    Thanks for reply! That's exactly what we were thinking, price of the tap alone was $177 and no stock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    You don't need to use the Stanley brand, Emuge and other brands have self locking thread taps and thread mills.In fact, I believe Stanley only sells uncoated taps. That's why we've gone with Emuge for the coated ones.
    The only differences that the programmer needs to know is that the tap drill size is different AND it's a one-way thread. Meaning that you can't tap a thru hole and re-run the tap thru from the bottom.
    Other than that, just program as normal.
    I haven't seen anything too outrageous as far as pricing goes they seem relatively normal.
    As for the gages, we haven't purchased any as our customers don't call out any fancy thread tolerances.

    Self Lock™ Taps | Emuge Corporation
    Hi, unfortunately the Emuge Self-Lock thread and Stanley Spiralock are completely different profiles and won't interchange. We would be stuck using the Stanley product line due to print specs, apparently this cannot be changed by customer.

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    I never had much issue with them. They seemed to run decent in production; albeit, that was mostly in aluminum. I also don't recall any supply chain issues with getting taps in a timely manner. If I recall correctly, we got them from Abrasive Specialists in the cities. The holes tapped with this type of tap did have significantly better resistance to loosening due to vibration. If it makes you feel better, I'll kick the engineer that probably designed the part you are looking at in the sack next month when I go turkey hunting with him

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    Quote Originally Posted by superior_machine View Post
    Hi, unfortunately the Emuge Self-Lock thread and Stanley Spiralock are completely different profiles and won't interchange.
    In what way? To me they look identical.
    Spiralock
    spiralock.jpg



    Emuge Self Lock
    emuge-self-lock.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    In what way? To me they look identical.
    Spiralock
    spiralock.jpg



    Emuge Self Lock
    emuge-self-lock.png
    I have no idea what those threads are, but in your pics the 10deg or so 'slant' is opposite between the two of them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I have no idea what those threads are, but in your pics the 10deg or so 'slant' is opposite between the two of them...
    They have the tap facing opposite directions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    In what way? To me they look identical.
    Spiralock
    spiralock.jpg



    Emuge Self Lock
    emuge-self-lock.png
    I don't know what the difference is between the two, but spoke to engineer at Emuge who said Stanley Spiralock is not the same as theirs. I'm assuming both are patented with very slight differences. It comes down to customer requiring Spiralock threads and not willing to deviate from them.

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    I tried the Emuge ones once for an internal application...just drilled it and tapped it in some 4140 but the screws just spun right in and out, didn’t seem any different than a normal thread. I was expecting to feel resistance....of course I made sure to use the proper drill per their recommendations. So I don’t know what happened there. I think we tried it on a Haas TM1 with a 5-40 screw. Emuge has a good reputation, so I’m sure I was doing something wrong but I don’t know what it could have been.

    Have you all had success with them? Like, have you tried putting a screw in and feeling resistance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdlinger View Post
    I tried the Emuge ones once for an internal application...just drilled it and tapped it in some 4140 but the screws just spun right in and out, didn’t seem any different than a normal thread. I was expecting to feel resistance....of course I made sure to use the proper drill per their recommendations. So I don’t know what happened there. I think we tried it on a Haas TM1 with a 5-40 screw. Emuge has a good reputation, so I’m sure I was doing something wrong but I don’t know what it could have been.

    Have you all had success with them? Like, have you tried putting a screw in and feeling resistance?
    It shouldn't affect the free-running torque. Do do a proper test you'd need to torque up a joint and then vibrate it (e.g. Junkers test)

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    Quote Originally Posted by superior_machine View Post
    I don't know what the difference is between the two, but spoke to engineer at Emuge who said Stanley Spiralock is not the same as theirs. I'm assuming both are patented with very slight differences. It comes down to customer requiring Spiralock threads and not willing to deviate from them.
    What's weird is that the Spiralock thread form dates back to the 70's. I've always been surprised that it hasn't been cloned/standardized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    It shouldn't affect the free-running torque. Do do a proper test you'd need to torque up a joint and then vibrate it (e.g. Junkers test)
    Oooooooh, so it just “holds” better? Like the breakaway torque would be higher for the same tightening torque when compared to a standard thread?

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    If I am nor mistaken they are all variations of the Dardelet thread

    used on structural bolts from the 1930s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by petersen View Post
    If I am nor mistaken they are all variations of the Dardelet thread

    used on structural bolts from the 1930s.
    And here's a reference if you want to learn more about this thread: Dardelet thread handbook for engineers, designers, and mechanics; ... - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library

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    We did a bunch of spiralock threads at one of my old gigs without issues. Taps took forever to get, were about 10X the price of standard taps, and were not available in any special coatings. Other than that it's a pretty standard affair.

    Tapped lots of aluminum, and I seem to recall some stainless. Performance of the taps was not great, but not terrible either. Run them slow, like a cheap HSS tap, because that's basically what they are.

    I don't recall requiring any gaging, but almost certainly Stanley sells thread gages. Of course, IMO if you use a cut tap, and check the minor, that's probably good enough for 99% of customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    We did a bunch of spiralock threads at one of my old gigs without issues. Taps took forever to get, were about 10X the price of standard taps, and were not available in any special coatings. Other than that it's a pretty standard affair.

    Tapped lots of aluminum, and I seem to recall some stainless. Performance of the taps was not great, but not terrible either. Run them slow, like a cheap HSS tap, because that's basically what they are.

    I don't recall requiring any gaging, but almost certainly Stanley sells thread gages. Of course, IMO if you use a cut tap, and check the minor, that's probably good enough for 99% of customers.
    https://www.stanleyengineeredfasteni...ptia/spiralock

    No affiliation, but it does appear they offer coated and un-coated taps, thread forming, and thread mills.

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    I would use cold form taps in stainless for best life, they have Spiralock specific minor diameters.
    Often times taps have long lead times, sometimes months, standard coatings are available.
    If you need gages plan on spending ~$1,000 for the 3 gage set to check Hi P.D., low P.D., and Ramp.
    You will be sending gages back to Stanley for calibration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    https://www.stanleyengineeredfasteni...ptia/spiralock

    No affiliation, but it does appear they offer coated and un-coated taps, thread forming, and thread mills.
    My bad; I specifically recall only being able to choose between a couple taps a few years ago, and the low performance being a source of frustration. Not sure if they added more, or it was just a lead time thing.


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