Anyone used Emuge punch taps??

curtis r · Mar 31, 2015

These are not yet available in the States, but I was wondering if anyone outside the U.S. had used Emuge's new punch tap? It seems that Mercedes owns the rights to them at this time and they will be coming to the States next year is what I was told. I would love to get my hands on some and give them a try, cool technology to save time. Here is a link to the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hbfEVtA7JMg

Curtis

LockNut · Mar 31, 2015

I would love to know if current tapping cycles will support this. Looks great. I would love to see the code for this type of tapping.

Paul

Monomer · Mar 31, 2015

Emudge developed it for Audi, for tapping cylinder heads. From what I recall in the last thread (heh) on these.

I think it would need a different tap cycle/post. Pretty interesting and kinda exciting!

ewlsey · Mar 31, 2015

I think you would need special permission from your customer to use this kind of tap. You will not get a standard thread.

It's really designed for high volume special applications like automotive.

I've worked on a few smaller engines like Briggs and Kohler that use a die cast hole that is 3 sided like a rounded triangle. They have special bolts that are also triangular. They pop the bolt in, spin it, it forms it's own thread and holds tight.

curtis r · Mar 31, 2015

Monomer said:
Emudge developed it for Audi, for tapping cylinder heads. From what I recall in the last thread (heh) on these.

I think it would need a different tap cycle/post. Pretty interesting and kinda exciting!

Sorry (heh) I did a search before posting and obviously didn't put in the right search parameters. Since you have seen them before, how long have they been out? The Emuge rep is the person who said Mercedes when I was trying to get some more info on them.

Curtis

Mtndew · Mar 31, 2015

I'll let someone else be the guinea pig on these before I buy one

cnctoolcat · Mar 31, 2015

Emuge definitely makes the best taps in the world, so I would think this new way will work fine in the right application.

gorrilla · Apr 1, 2015

curtis r said:
These are not yet available in the States, but I was wondering if anyone outside the U.S. had used Emuge's new punch tap? It seems that Mercedes owns the rights to them at this time and they will be coming to the States next year is what I was told. I would love to get my hands on some and give them a try, cool technology to save time. Here is a link to the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hbfEVtA7JMg

Curtis

My son saw this video, sent me a link to it a few weeks back. Looks like a very limited application. Aluminum only, and I question the practicality and thread strength in a lot of other apps. Not saying it won't work, but it's only gonna leave threads in part of the hole, 180 degrees apart, with a gap between the threads where it punches in and retracts. Formed thread, that part should be stronger, but strong enough to make up for not having 360 degree engagement? I'll believe that when I see it. Save Mercedes some time, but strength worries me. Not like them to try something wild without testing to death, so there is that.
The machine for it, and the programming are gonna be proprietary too, I'll bet.

rlockwood · Apr 1, 2015

gorrilla said:
My son saw this video, sent me a link to it a few weeks back. Looks like a very limited application. Aluminum only, and I question the practicality and thread strength in a lot of other apps. Not saying it won't work, but it's only gonna leave threads in part of the hole, 180 degrees apart, with a gap between the threads where it punches in and retracts. Formed thread, that part should be stronger, but strong enough to make up for not having 360 degree engagement? I'll believe that when I see it. Save Mercedes some time, but strength worries me. Not like them to try something wild without testing to death, so there is that.
The machine for it, and the programming are gonna be proprietary too, I'll bet.

As long as it's punched at the helix angle of the tool, and is removed at the same location it was punched, the area of thread removed should be pretty minimal..

rlockwood · Apr 2, 2015

Doug said:
I wonder if it leaves chips in the hole from punching its way in? The actual threads are formed. Maybe the helical entry is formed too?

The programmed path would be a fast helix in at the tap's helix, helical rotation 180 degrees at the thread pitch, then fast helix out.

I would assume the punch is formed, otherwise it's generating a rather long chip that would cause issues at the bottom of the hole..

Zonko · Apr 2, 2015

gorrilla said:
My son saw this video, sent me a link to it a few weeks back. Looks like a very limited application. Aluminum only, and I question the practicality and thread strength in a lot of other apps. Not saying it won't work, but it's only gonna leave threads in part of the hole, 180 degrees apart, with a gap between the threads where it punches in and retracts. Formed thread, that part should be stronger, but strong enough to make up for not having 360 degree engagement? QUOTE]

Completely inconsequential.
For typical regular series "machine theads" , such as the metric main series of (coarse)threads, the strength of the regular nut already exceeds the strength of the bolt. Thats equates about 3.5 - 4 threads in steel. That is enough to twist off the bolt.
In Al you may need something like 8 threads, so lets assume we need 10 with the emuge tap. That is only 12.5 mm of thread for an m8 thread.
and even if it took 12 turns, at 15 mm it would still be not that much thread, less than 2 x D.

swarf_rat · Apr 2, 2015

I'm waiting for the matching 1/4 turn bolts.

brian.pallas · Apr 2, 2015

http://punchtap.com/en/download/ZP10093_GB_PunchTap-Flyer.pdf

Here is a link to a pdf from Emuge. I am curious what what it takes to get a machine to run these taps. Looks like the spindle rotation and the feed have to be synchronized for 1/2 a turn of the thread to form the threads, and then also synchronize the faster helix on the retract to go out of the same groove it made when it came in.

john-san · Oct 1, 2019

Only for soft materials like aluminum,but check with Emuge about availability, only 2XD is available in M3-M10 and #8-5/16, but specials will be made ????. We're actually talking to Fanuc about the tapping cycle program, guessing Heidenhain control may have been initially used. Daimler/Audi etc worked with Emuge, but I'm curious who came up with the idea?

That 3 sided tap was a form tap you used in the die cast.

GENERALDISARRAY · Oct 3, 2019

john-san said:
We're actually talking to Fanuc about the tapping cycle program,

Let us know how that ends up.

In Borat voice; You will never get this

This would have been better with the spoiler tags, buy I couldn't get them to work.

BoscoDrummer · Oct 3, 2019

Also you need a Siemens controller, and the only CAM I am aware of that can provide the code is Siemens as well.

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Anyone used Emuge punch taps??

curtis r

Aluminum

LockNut

Stainless

Monomer

Cast Iron

ewlsey

Diamond

curtis r

Aluminum

Mtndew

Diamond

cnctoolcat

Diamond

gorrilla

Stainless

rlockwood

Stainless

rlockwood

Stainless

Zonko

Stainless

swarf_rat

Titanium

brian.pallas

Hot Rolled

john-san

Aluminum

GENERALDISARRAY

Hot Rolled

BoscoDrummer

Aluminum

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