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Anyone using chip fans?

M

martin_05

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
Valencia, CA, USA
Big Kaiser has them (expensive):

Chip Fan | BIG KAISER

And there are others, going down to so cheap they must be dangerous:

Error 400 (Bad Request)!!1

https://www.redlinetools.com/itemde...3bQjvKfjCHm5Sw2ZhCIlOLew6El1YxoCRwMQAvD_ BwE

...and a video:


I have RC airplanes with folding carbon fiber propellers as large in diameter as 14 inches. They move a ton of air and can handle the RPM's just fine. However, they are not struck by chips in flight, which could happen to these CNC versions I suppose. That's where the $40 version becomes scary.

Maybe they save time and mess? you do lose one slot in the tool changer.

Any thoughts? Worth it?
 
Yes, absolutely worth it! We have a 14" Big Kaiser with the fold out wings.
Make sure you speed up the spindle in steps and not just jerk it wide open.
It does a good job of moving chips and coolant. It also alerts the operator when the cycle is done.
 
I use a redline one every day and like it ,,, I run it at 6k and stay about 6" over the fixtures ,,, it does not a great job of blocking of the parts and the work area ,, but does not get the coolant out of the small holes in the part ,, but I just pick the parts and put them in a bucket of water to get the holes cleaned out and blow the few chips that are left on the fixture and reload it ….

three tricks to using them

write a custom program and just call it up and write it so it turns the fan on right after the tool change line and turns it off " only at your z home"

if you turn off the spindle and your down by your parts it well try and close the blades and they well contact your parts ( I don`t want to talk about it)

And you must have a mists collector ,,
 
Yep, Use them all the time. Typically I just have a sub that runs a clean cycle. Just make sure you comp for a 4th axis if it's on the table. They don't mingle together very well.
 
Go to the hobby store.
Buy a model airplane propeller, just a few bucks. Under $10.
Make a spindle/mount for it... 5-10 minutes with the lathe.

Orient the blades so it fits in the tool changer.
The blades can be 90 degrees to adjacent pockets.

The blades do NOT have to fold to fit in the tool changer!

Works GREAT.

You're Welcome.
 
martin_05 said:
Ah. Seriously? It aerosolizes things to that extent?
Click to expand...

even at just 6K they blow the coolant EVERY WEAR ,, but as long as you program it not to go close to the limits in Y axis it does not seem to blast chips and crap up under the table ,,, The redline is rated at 5K to 8K but I tried the 8K ONCE ,, it blow chips out the tool changer hole on the VF2 ,,, about 6K and a good 6 to 8" off the part seem to be about right ,,,
 
Also keep in mind that the BK "billet" fan will generally need 3 pockets because of its diameter. This is machine specific.
It worked in my Brother only needing one pocket. But, in a haas, it needs three.
It would appear most typical side-mount tool changers would also require it to be marked as a large tool.
I have one BK, and it lives in the only mill I have with a 40 tool changer. I can afford the two extra pockets there. In the 24's I can not.
I prefer the LANG fan over the BK, for this reason (the LANG only needs one pocket). And, it just seems to work better.
As of last Friday I now have a fan in every mill.
 
Redline fan only uses one pocket on my 24 and 30 pocket haas mills,,, I think I payed right about $169 for them but it might have been a end of the year sale ,, I make up a wish list and buy a lot of crap at the end of every year ,,
 
martin_05 said:
Any thoughts? Worth it?
Click to expand...

I have a Lang chip fan in pot 20 on my Speedio.

I really like it. Being able to blow parts clean without having to reach into the machine with an air gun is great, and I don't get chips in my face and hair this way.

In general it works great on aluminum/steel chips and coolant. 6000 RPM at ~4" off the parts seems to be pretty good. Rather than program, I usually just put the mill in handle mode and use the MPG to blow the table clean after the chip wash finishes.

I spent most of the weekend cutting Delrin, though. The chip fan did clear off the parts... but it also turned the inside of the mill into a coolant and plastic soaked mess. The Delrin chips were so light that they just blew everywhere and stuck to everything.
 
wheelieking71 said:
Also keep in mind that the BK "billet" fan will generally need 3 pockets because of its diameter. This is machine specific.
It worked in my Brother only needing one pocket. But, in a haas, it needs three.
It would appear most typical side-mount tool changers would also require it to be marked as a large tool.
I have one BK, and it lives in the only mill I have with a 40 tool changer. I can afford the two extra pockets there. In the 24's I can not.
I prefer the LANG fan over the BK, for this reason (the LANG only needs one pocket). And, it just seems to work better.
As of last Friday I now have a fan in every mill.
Click to expand...

I have tried the "billet" fan too, and wasn't impressed. RC airplane props fall into the same category......:D
The flip-out blade BK fan uses about 25% spindle load in a Haas and it does a VERY good job in a few seconds.
I use a short program based off G53 locations and then call it in another program using M98 Pxxxxx.
 
3t3d said:
Buy a model airplane propeller
Click to expand...

I have lots of props, form 7 to 14+ in. I've been building and flying model airplanes for 30+ years.

Most of my glider props are Aeronaut carbon fiber folding props. They can easily handle 10,000 RPM and produce a massive amount of thrust in the larger sizes. I'm very tempted to give it a shot. Since I have an umbrella tool changer on my machine, it's even easier.
 
ChipSplitter said:
RC airplane props fall into the same category
Click to expand...

What I'll all "conventional" RC plane props are not going to work for this at all. What's needed are the highly optimized folding props designed for electric powered gliders. This is what they look like:

Aeronaut 2-Blade Black Spinners for Folding Propellers

Also, the blades in these chip blowers are not optimized aerodynamically. They are really bad designs from that perspective actually. Think about the difference in radial velocity as you move away from center. You need a variable angle of attack, with the tip at zero or nearly zero. Most of the air will be moved by the inner 50% of the rotor. The only reason they are using-up 25% load on a VF2 is bad aero design. I am very tempted to put one of my aeronaut folders on my machine to see how it does and how much less power it consumes.

That said, the only concern I would have would be impact by chips. I think it's unlikely. That said, these props will take some abuse (I can attest to that from flying them).
 
martin_05 said:
What I'll all "conventional" RC plane props are not going to work for this at all. What's needed are the highly optimized folding props designed for electric powered gliders. This is what they look like:

Aeronaut 2-Blade Black Spinners for Folding Propellers

Also, the blades in these chip blowers are not optimized aerodynamically. They are really bad designs from that perspective actually. Think about the difference in radial velocity as you move away from center. You need a variable angle of attack, with the tip at zero or nearly zero. Most of the air will be moved by the inner 50% of the rotor. The only reason they are using-up 25% load on a VF2 is bad aero design. I am very tempted to put one of my aeronaut folders on my machine to see how it does and how much less power it consumes.

That said, the only concern I would have would be impact by chips. I think it's unlikely. That said, these props will take some abuse (I can attest to that from flying them).
Click to expand...

Oh, the chips will hit them, don't worry. :D

I am curious how the props work, though.
 
I have a Lang, and I have a sub that I've assigned an M-code to (M50 in this case) I use a different work offset just for the fan, with X and Y zeroed out, and Z 6" above any fixturing. It covers the whole table. We don't use it unless the chips collected in a single cycle impede placement of the next part. We'll also run it at the end of a run, when we want to clean up the whole table.
 
I have the Redline Turbo . Its been awesome for parts that end up with lakes in them. A side benefit is if I'm working at another machine I can hear the chip fan come on as an end of cycle alert.
 
martin_05 said:
I have lots of props, form 7 to 14+ in. I've been building and flying model airplanes for 30+ years.

Most of my glider props are Aeronaut carbon fiber folding props. They can easily handle 10,000 RPM and produce a massive amount of thrust in the larger sizes. I'm very tempted to give it a shot. Since I have an umbrella tool changer on my machine, it's even easier.
Click to expand...

You well need a second fan to clean all the chips out of the umbrella tool changer …
 
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