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Anyone willing to help walk me thru a turret alignment/check

csharp

Stainless
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Location
PA
I have a 2008 Haas SL30. I am the original owner. A couple of months ago I had a part come out from not enough clamping force. It wedged between the turret and chuck. I did move the wedge on the machine.

I had HAAS come and do an alignment. It still seems as though something is not quit right. The part I am on now has 2 bores. One is a 2.320" and the other is at 1.258" The finish parts are coming out 2.319 / 1.258

All I can assume is it is off center. I swept in the boring bar and it was off I put it on center better but same problem.

I have a copy of the SL maintenance manual but not sure if it is in the exact order plus it jumps between turret styles. Mine is the BOT style.

TIA
 
LOL, That won't fix it for next week.

Not really worried about in on this order more for a long term fix.
 
List your exact location, there could be a PM member in your backyard that is an expert on fixing your problem that might be willing to help you in person for a pizza and a pitcher of beer.
 
List your exact location, there could be a PM member in your backyard that is an expert on fixing your problem that might be willing to help you in person for a pizza and a pitcher of beer.

Sure I am in Ulysses PA, Potter County.


The real one I am trying to figure out is how to tell if the wedge and spindle centerine are aligned. The moved the wedge since it was no longer parallel to axis of travel but if they slide entire wedge back in the process it would put the current below center.
 
I have a 2008 Haas SL30. I am the original owner. A couple of months ago I had a part come out from not enough clamping force. It wedged between the turret and chuck. I did move the wedge on the machine.

I had HAAS come and do an alignment. It still seems as though something is not quit right. The part I am on now has 2 bores. One is a 2.320" and the other is at 1.258" The finish parts are coming out 2.319 / 1.258

All I can assume is it is off center. I swept in the boring bar and it was off I put it on center better but same problem.

I have a copy of the SL maintenance manual but not sure if it is in the exact order plus it jumps between turret styles. Mine is the BOT style.

TIA
you checking with dial bore? what is your taper amount?
how deep for the 1st bore and the second bore. ie how long is your part?
how about the o.d. you have any taper in it? again are you checking with Micrometer on o.d.

its extremely easy to check b-bar centerline. put a solid bar in it and face it down to see if you leave a tit or it shears it.

to check the straightness of the spindle. you generally use a known ground and straight shaft. most people dont have them. for a quick way take a piece of 2-3" stock stick out 6-12 inchs and cut an o.d. lightly. measure the taper and adjust. thats the quick fix mickey mouse way but it does work very well.

with ground stock about 2" in dia and cut jaws, you run an indicator on it and adjust till its dead nuts
 
The machine does have a little taper. However there are adjacent bore and each is only .5" in length. Part is only 1"

I know I can face off apart but was wanting to really check all the squareness and parallelisms I can with indicators.

Sweeping along the turret od tool pocket show .0015" out. Service manual calls for .0002" so it appears as though the turret is slightly out of time/rotation.

Really looking for where to start. I know many of these adjustments affect the next one. So I want understand the proper starting point
 
Really looking for where to start. I know many of these adjustments affect the next one. So I want understand the proper starting point
We always start with the turret as its easiest. make sure its square and to center. to check center put a indical in the chuck then sweeps every i.d. tool. I say everyone cause one or 2 might be cocked. best to take them off clean them stone them the pu back on then indicate
if the turret is ut of squareness when checking the face of it, Square it up before indicating i.d. holders. you adjust where its bolted to the x axis.
after that's dead 0 or close, then goto the o.d holders. adjust that if needed.
if you need to remove the tapered pins and toss them in the garbage DONT REUSE THEM AT ALL. buy some new tapered pins and put them back in. then check again. Most of the time we never put taper pins back in because the operators tend to crash the machines often so we just lock down the screws. this way you dont move the assembly on the x axis when it crashes again. unless your taking heavy ass cuts you dont need pins.
so once the turret is perfect then move to the spindle and do Like I mentioned above.

if you don't have a coaxial indicator like a blake or something similar don't even waste you time, as a regular indicator with attachment in your chuck are worthless. Every lathe shop should have a coaxial indicator.
old interrapids with with the little post on the back will work fine in a pinch as long as the post is tight. only problem is getting it to the back of the i.d. holder and checking for squareness. and also haveing to use a mirror

because this is an older machine its best the Check the I.d. tool holders in 3 different spots front middle and back. as they get worn slipping bushings in and out as well as they tweek a tad tightening them down.
Also after your done checking and adjusting EVERYTHING go back and check the turret one more time.
Depending on the type of turret there is 2 face gears one on turret on on main housing. the main housing one is the one that moves the most. BUT not always. do the main housing one 1st with the new tapered pins, if you still have alignment issues then do the same to the one on the turret itself.
 
We always start with the turret as its easiest. make sure its square and to center. to check center put a indical in the chuck then sweeps every i.d. tool. I say everyone cause one or 2 might be cocked. best to take them off clean them stone them the pu back on then indicate
if the turret is ut of squareness when checking the face of it, Square it up before indicating i.d. holders. you adjust where its bolted to the x axis.
after that's dead 0 or close, then goto the o.d holders. adjust that if needed.
if you need to remove the tapered pins and toss them in the garbage DONT REUSE THEM AT ALL. buy some new tapered pins and put them back in. then check again. Most of the time we never put taper pins back in because the operators tend to crash the machines often so we just lock down the screws. this way you dont move the assembly on the x axis when it crashes again. unless your taking heavy ass cuts you dont need pins.
so once the turret is perfect then move to the spindle and do Like I mentioned above.

if you don't have a coaxial indicator like a blake or something similar don't even waste you time, as a regular indicator with attachment in your chuck are worthless. Every lathe shop should have a coaxial indicator.
old interrapids with with the little post on the back will work fine in a pinch as long as the post is tight. only problem is getting it to the back of the i.d. holder and checking for squareness. and also haveing to use a mirror

because this is an older machine its best the Check the I.d. tool holders in 3 different spots front middle and back. as they get worn slipping bushings in and out as well as they tweek a tad tightening them down.
Also after your done checking and adjusting EVERYTHING go back and check the turret one more time.
Depending on the type of turret there is 2 face gears one on turret on on main housing. the main housing one is the one that moves the most. BUT not always. do the main housing one 1st with the new tapered pins, if you still have alignment issues then do the same to the one on the turret itself.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation.
 
Solid info in those replies.

Would be difficult to gain much more info from such shallow bores, other than diameter. Cut some longer ones if you can. Not saying that this is your issue, but could easily just be the material vs. tool pressure too. I would want more defining depths and diameters.

I was unaware of the videos that Wes put up, there, as I rarely watch youtube. ( just not something that I'm into ) However, I can say this - We have had Wes out to do service on machinery because I was simply too busy to spend the time, myself. I'm not a cheap person, but I can be admittedly frugal. Wes was 100 percent worth the money. He's very good, and easy to work with. Will have him out to do more, and without hesitation. Don't care if that sounds like an advert. It's an endorsement. I also believe that the video about turret alignment became our machine shortly after it was recorded. :cool:

Delw's advise is 100% spot on. You'll do well with it. I've spoken with him a few times and he knows his stuff. Solid advice in those posts.

Good luck, C.
 
ok I'll try and do my best to walk you thru some of this. I have squared more haas lathes then I could shake a stick at. 1st off a haas doesn't use taper pins like okuma , or danichi, and other manufacturers. so don't waste ur time looking for them. you can check wedge by a indicator in the spindle, and checking it along 1 of the slotted pockets. the best and easiest way to get your pocket on center is take off the center turret cover. on the older models they covered the turret bolts. in the newer models that could have changed, and you may not have to remove it .so look before you do so .you are looking for about 12 to 14 socket head cap screws, that have a Pattern about a foot across. you want to first off remove 1 of those bolts . and go order new replacements . these bolts get bent when a crash occurs. when you have your replacement bolts. remove and replace them 1 at a time. do not completely tighten them . but dont leave them sloppy loose either. with the bolts somewhat loose, swing your pocket. use a dead blow to move the turret to the closest you can get your zero. then slowly tighten the bolts in a opposing pattern a little at a time. as you go around tightening the bolts , continue to sweep your pocket. continue to do so until they are all tight. I'm curious of 2 things. 1 was the machine crashed? 2 if so did haas bring out a cylindrical square to check the machine out ?
 
Ive no direct experience with cnc but alignment is alignment. Those videos that Wes (hes a savvy fella) put up are good watching imo.
The foundation of the machine is the bed so start there. If youre cutting taper then bed twist/ headstock alignment in that order is probably things to check first imo. If youre free of twist an good that way then headstock alignment next. You can chuck up a 2" bar and turn 2 equal diameter collars over 6", that can serve as a test bar.
If youve no fancy indicator you can turn a spud the same diameter as your id tooling and indicate any difference directly to a sleeve/bar in the turret, can do the same for the tailstock.

Cheers
D
 
ok I'll try and do my best to walk you thru some of this. I have squared more haas lathes then I could shake a stick at. 1st off a haas doesn't use taper pins like okuma , or danichi, and other manufacturers. so don't waste ur time looking for them. you can check wedge by a indicator in the spindle, and checking it along 1 of the slotted pockets. the best and easiest way to get your pocket on center is take off the center turret cover. on the older models they covered the turret bolts. in the newer models that could have changed, and you may not have to remove it .so look before you do so .you are looking for about 12 to 14 socket head cap screws, that have a Pattern about a foot across. you want to first off remove 1 of those bolts . and go order new replacements . these bolts get bent when a crash occurs. when you have your replacement bolts. remove and replace them 1 at a time. do not completely tighten them . but dont leave them sloppy loose either. with the bolts somewhat loose, swing your pocket. use a dead blow to move the turret to the closest you can get your zero. then slowly tighten the bolts in a opposing pattern a little at a time. as you go around tightening the bolts , continue to sweep your pocket. continue to do so until they are all tight. I'm curious of 2 things. 1 was the machine crashed? 2 if so did haas bring out a cylindrical square to check the machine out ?
Thanks for the clarification I have never done a Haas. can you or someone post a picture of a wedge you guys are talking about?
 
unfortunately I can not post pictures here and I haven't a clue why ?? it's very simple. where your OD toold mount is about a 6 inch long flat for them to sit on ( may be on a tool holder for od). along that flat ,indicate that flat in X while that tool is facing the spindle. I honestly cant see your wedge being that far out , without your pocket being out by a large amount. or the machine isnt square. you didn't answer my question? did haas send in a cylindrical square to check ur machine?
 
unfortunately I can not post pictures here and I haven't a clue why ?? it's very simple. where your OD toold mount is about a 6 inch long flat for them to sit on ( may be on a tool holder for od). along that flat ,indicate that flat in X while that tool is facing the spindle. I honestly cant see your wedge being that far out , without your pocket being out by a large amount. or the machine isnt square. you didn't answer my question? did haas send in a cylindrical square to check ur machine?

Oh I know what your talking about as far as wedges now.

BTW The guy having the problem is Csharp not me.
 
oh gotcha !

IIRC the tools they brought were a grand flat bar with a notch for the spindle nose tape that bolted directly to the spindle nose. That was used to check the wedge alignment to the spindle. Machine was off and they loosened up the bolts that hold the wedge on the trucks and moved it back.

The brought a long bar that bolted to the spindle taper to check the spindle for square/parallel to ais travel.

All other adjustments were by indicators on current itself.


I will also check out the posted video. Thanks to all
 








 
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