Arbor - can someone identify the machine it belongs to please?
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  1. #1
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    Default Arbor - can someone identify the machine it belongs to please?

    I bought a drill chuck recently; it was attached to this unidentified arbor.
    I wondered if someone could tell me what machine this would suit?
    The markings are "Fanuc" "Big" "30-J6".
    There is a large ball bearing on the arbor, I presume it is used by a tool changer?
    Thanks for any help.


    arbor-fanuc-30-j6-01.jpgarbor-fanuc-30-j6-02.jpgarbor-fanuc-30-j6-03.jpgarbor-fanuc-30-j6-04.jpg

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    Pratt & Whitney TapeMate. C model maybe? Pretty old, latish 70s IIRC. Fanuc made them and Pratt & Whitney was the importer/dealer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    I bought a drill chuck recently; it was attached to this unidentified arbor.
    I wondered if someone could tell me what machine this would suit?
    The markings are "Fanuc" "Big" "30-J6".
    There is a large ball bearing on the arbor, I presume it is used by a tool changer?
    Thanks for any help.


    arbor-fanuc-30-j6-01.jpgarbor-fanuc-30-j6-02.jpgarbor-fanuc-30-j6-03.jpgarbor-fanuc-30-j6-04.jpg
    Try these folk:

    Basic Arbors | BIG KAISER

    It would "suit" any spindle and changer with matching taper and same-family of pull-stud.

    Pull-stud being removable/changeable as well as replaceable, it could also suit manual machines with ignorant drawbars so long as the drive lug(s) were also compatible or could be made to be.

    "Many, many", IOW.

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    Just noticed the OP is from New Zealand. The machine was probably called something other than what I wrote above. Pratt & Whitney was the US importer/distributor. No idea who was the importer/distributor for NZ (likely Australia too). Maybe angelw or machtool will chime in on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    It would "suit" any spindle and changer with matching taper and same-family of pull-stud.
    Poorly worded question perhaps - I would like to know what machine it was originally made for. The large bearing makes it fairly machine specific I am guessing.

    Vancbiker,Thanks for the P&W suggestion.

    BTW, this arbor had a nice Japanese drill chuck on it "Yukiwa Heavy Duty Ball Bearing Super Chuck", a new name to me.

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    Further to vancbiker's posts, I had a look for a P&W Tapemate Model C. It seems they are the same as (or made by) Fanuc Drillmate Series C.

    This guy has a few videos of the P&W machine, the bearing looks to be holding the tool in the rotary drum/turret, not a arm-type tool changer. He thinks it is BT 30 tooling. He also says Fanuc got rid of the bearing on later models.

    YouTube

    Another guy "Hood" (who I think is a PM member) has a Chiron FZ12S with similar tooling (SK30 he says). However this tooling uses a thinner bearing and a brass ring. It seems you can change the Chiron tooling to the wider bearing and it will fit the P&W/Fanuc.

    This machine is quite a sight!

    YouTube

    Any further info welcome!

    fanuc-2.2.2-page-9-spindle-edit.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    ......Vancbiker,Thanks for the P&W suggestion....
    Quite certain it is the TapeMate, just not sure of the model. When labeled as Fanuc they were called DrillMate

    A bit of Googling shows a thread on this site that concurs....

    Help identify these inserts Nikken TDC30-PC50-75 With PC50H Three Indexible Inserts

    On edit: You posted while I was typing the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    ......

    This machine is quite a sight!

    YouTube

    ....
    The toolholder you have is definitely not for a Chiron. I had the unfortunate experience to be an FSE for a Chiron distributor for a couple years. Without a doubt the most troublesome toolchanger I ever saw on a "modern" machine tool. Very maintenance intensive. Chip contamination being by far the most common cause of trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    The toolholder you have is definitely not for a Chiron. I had the unfortunate experience to be an FSE for a Chiron distributor for a couple years. Without a doubt the most troublesome toolchanger I ever saw on a "modern" machine tool. Very maintenance intensive. Chip contamination being by far the most common cause of trouble.
    Agreed, the Chiron holder is is not the same as mine.
    Just mentioned the Chiron because the guy with the P&W above had converted some Chiron holders for his machine. Although I am not 100% sure he had tried them when he posted here (see Reply No. 15 which compares Chiron and Fanuc/P&W holders):

    Putting tools in tool holders

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    This Link is BT30 tooling Measurements -

    7:24 ISO Taper -- BT

    93917106-4398-43f2-99d0-b3b7dfe27475.jpg



    Below National Standard Taper measurements.

    national-standard-taper-chart.jpg


    More different shanks with dimensions, this is a good link for all different tapers.

    Machine Tool Shanks (Tapers)



    Edit - The photos are almost full screen on computer but coming out smaller here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    Poorly worded question perhaps - I would like to know what machine it was originally made for. The large bearing makes it fairly machine specific I am guessing.
    LOL! Yah.... welll....

    And it seems you got it. PM at work.. etc.





    ... a nice Japanese drill chuck on it "Yukiwa Heavy Duty Ball Bearing Super Chuck", a new name to me.
    New name to me as well - as was also a French high-grade drill chuck maker that surfaced on PM this past week. (Spanish ones I have, already).

    Best outcome would be that the nice chuck has a standard arse-end that readily fits <whatever other > toolholder you - or a potential purchaser/trader - actually have a machine for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    .....BTW, this arbor had a nice Japanese drill chuck on it "Yukiwa Heavy Duty Ball Bearing Super Chuck", a new name to me.
    Yukiwa is still around. I mainly know of them for their rotary tables which were offered on some Mori Seiki VMCs back in the 90s. IIRC, one or more of the Brother threads here talks about having Yukiwa rotary tables on their machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Best outcome would be that the nice chuck has a standard arse-end that readily fits <whatever other > toolholder you - or a potential purchaser/trader - actually have a machine for.
    Yes, it was the chuck I wanted. I am a great fan of Jacobs ball bearing drill chucks, so wanted to try this Japanese version. It has a J6 taper.

    The arbor was just a curiosity.

    One very nice feature of the arbor is the jacking nut for the chuck - what a great idea. Why don't all drill chuck arbors have this. Perhaps it is common on CNC machines. Tapered wedges are not always the answer for example, a small morse taper may not have any shoulder for the wedges to act on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    One very nice feature of the arbor is the jacking nut for the chuck - what a great idea.
    My very humble 1940-something Walker-Turner drillpress has the same thing - already an old, old idea.

    There are also the reverse: Threaded retention rings.

    As to why not more common? I doubt either concept "scales" all that well.

    A ring with enough beef to break-loose my 5 MT goods would take up a LOT of scarce space right on the machine. The wedge, lever, and "ratcheting" differential drifts for all that OTOH only take up space in the box!


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    A ring with enough beef to break-loose my 5 MT goods would take up a LOT of scarce space right on the machine. The wedge, lever, and "ratcheting" differential drifts for all that OTOH only take up space in the box!
    Just to remove drill chucks from their Jacobs taper I mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    Just to remove drill chucks from their Jacobs taper ....
    ".. with lower risk of damage to the chuck than 'pickle-forks', wedges, hammers, etc."

    Certainly.

    Cost-justifiable, OTOH? Generally "no longer the case".

    At the present-day cost of decent chucks vs human labour, fully-burdened? For "revenue" shops it may be cheaper to scrap the whole rig - toolholder as well as chuck - for the certainty of performance of a brand-new package and just keep on making parts, fewer/no distractions.


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