Averex/Akari HMC - Experiences?

mutiny · Aug 29, 2020

Researching for a future machine tool purchase, and this brand was brought up. First I've heard of them, but very nice machines on paper. I'm looking at the HS-450i in particular.

Very small MTB, at least in the States. Focuses solely on HMCs. Built in Taiwan primarily using Japanese components. Clearly takes a lot of cues from Makino, but very competitively priced.

They imported them as Akari in the past.

Anyone heard of them? Any impressions or experiences? My first concern was support, but I'm told they have machine stock, part stock, and service technicians available on the East coast.

as9100d · Aug 29, 2020

Never heard of them.we will not deviate from Mori every again.

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Ianagos · Aug 29, 2020

I bought a machine from the dealer that sells them I could give the salesman’s number for you to talk to her. She seems like good people. I actually felt as if I didn’t get ripped off after buying from a dealer.

mutiny · Aug 30, 2020

Ianagos said:
I bought a machine from the dealer that sells them I could give the salesman’s number for you to talk to her. She seems like good people. I actually felt as if I didn’t get ripped off after buying from a dealer.

I appreciate the offer, but I'm already in contact with a distributor selling them in my area. They have a couple installations nearby, will go take a look eventually.

Ianagos · Aug 30, 2020

Ah good. Let us know your experiences on here.

as9100d · Aug 30, 2020

Looks like a decent HMC. Wonder that the prices are??

I've committed to a dmg Mori with app already but this brand doesn't look terrible

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Ianagos · Aug 30, 2020

as9100d said:
Looks like a decent HMC. Wonder that the prices are??

I've committed to a dmg Mori with app already but this brand doesn't look terrible

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I got a quote for around 220 for one of the 400mm pallet versions with tsc probing etc.

I’ll
Look at the quote if you are actually interested but it’s old.

as9100d · Aug 30, 2020

I couldn't do it for that price.

Smart machines that are rebranded I'll are around $170,000 and the dmg nhx4000 was $260,000 loaded like that

We chose dmg

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mutiny · Aug 30, 2020

Ianagos said:
Ah good. Let us know your experiences on here.

Will probably be a few months before I see anything in person, but I'll definitely circle back around. The facility I'll visit has Doosan and Makino HMCs in addition to a couple newer Averex, so hopefully they can offer some nice comparisons.

mutiny · Aug 30, 2020

Ianagos said:
I got a quote for around 220 for one of the 400mm pallet versions with tsc probing etc.

I didn't get an official quote but according to the base pricing I've heard, it's not gone up dramatically in any way.

mutiny · Aug 30, 2020

as9100d said:
I couldn't do it for that price.

Smart machines that are rebranded I'll are around $170,000 and the dmg nhx4000 was $260,000 loaded like that

We chose dmg

That's... surprising to me. Maybe you're getting better prices due to a preexisting relationship?

For reference, a Haas EC-400 configured similarly with their current "sale" pricing is already $225k. Maybe the EC-400 is just an absolutely terrible deal that no one should buy? That's after configuring it with the comparable specs of the HS-450i:

- 15k spindle (no BigPlus option for Haas, but standard on HS-450i and I know on DMG Mori too)
- 100 ATC (20 more than HS-450i which comes standard with 80 but is field upgradeable to 120 or 220 so I'll call that equal)
- 21 bar CTS (HS-450i is 30 bar)
- High pressure flood coolant
- Dynamic work offsets (G54.2 standard on HS-450i, I think this is the same purpose?)
- High-speed machining
- Remote jog handle

I'm not pretending that Haas is some kind of benchmark, but going through the process of configuring an EC-400 has 1) taught me that I'll never buy a new EC-400 when machines like the HS-450i are available at the same price point, and 2) caused me great surprise that Haas sells any horizontals if you can get a loaded DMG Mori for 15% more.

wishin4snow · Aug 31, 2020

We have Two Averex's. First one we got was an HS-450i with the 6 pallet pool. This machine is three years old with 9000 hrs run time. The only issue I have ever had that wasn't operator error was the springs in the tool transfer pocket broke. This was maybe at 6000 hrs run time. I had them changed out in 10 minutes and haven't had an issue since. We then got an HS-540i with a 6 pallet pool. Currently at 1 yr old and 3000 hrs run time. This one had a few little issues out of the gate. A few sensors in the tool changer needed adjusted. Also the spindle chiller had a leak when it was delivered but our Distributor took care of it. I also had a key in one of the tool pockets in the chain loosen up and fall out. Really minor stuff.

Honestly, we absolutely love these machines. These machines only cut aluminum for us but once I have an offset dialed in, I don't touch it for months. We have several holes with -0.000 , +.0005 and have no problem interpolating these all day. About 2 years ago, I fat fingered an offset and ended up cracking the clamping pucks under the tombstone. Had the part the next day and super easy to swap out. With that said, about 1 month ago, I had to change out the window and it took a week to get. I don't know if it because of COVID but they did not have the part in stock in the states.

Only other suggestion is to get the Data Server option from Fanuc. Drag and drop programs from a laptop and way more memory than the standard.

as9100d · Aug 31, 2020

wishin4snow said:
We have Two Averex's. First one we got was an HS-450i with the 6 pallet pool. This machine is three years old with 9000 hrs run time. The only issue I have ever had that wasn't operator error was the springs in the tool transfer pocket broke. This was maybe at 6000 hrs run time. I had them changed out in 10 minutes and haven't had an issue since. We then got an HS-540i with a 6 pallet pool. Currently at 1 yr old and 3000 hrs run time. This one had a few little issues out of the gate. A few sensors in the tool changer needed adjusted. Also the spindle chiller had a leak when it was delivered but our Distributor took care of it. I also had a key in one of the tool pockets in the chain loosen up and fall out. Really minor stuff.

Honestly, we absolutely love these machines. These machines only cut aluminum for us but once I have an offset dialed in, I don't touch it for months. We have several holes with -0.000 , +.0005 and have no problem interpolating these all day. About 2 years ago, I fat fingered an offset and ended up cracking the clamping pucks under the tombstone. Had the part the next day and super easy to swap out. With that said, about 1 month ago, I had to change out the window and it took a week to get. I don't know if it because of COVID but they did not have the part in stock in the states.

Only other suggestion is to get the Data Server option from Fanuc. Drag and drop programs from a laptop and way more memory than the standard.

What was the price with that pallet pool? Have any pics??

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mutiny · Aug 31, 2020

wishin4snow said:
We have Two Averex's. First one we got was an HS-450i with the 6 pallet pool. This machine is three years old with 9000 hrs run time. The only issue I have ever had that wasn't operator error was the springs in the tool transfer pocket broke. This was maybe at 6000 hrs run time. I had them changed out in 10 minutes and haven't had an issue since. We then got an HS-540i with a 6 pallet pool. Currently at 1 yr old and 3000 hrs run time. This one had a few little issues out of the gate. A few sensors in the tool changer needed adjusted. Also the spindle chiller had a leak when it was delivered but our Distributor took care of it. I also had a key in one of the tool pockets in the chain loosen up and fall out. Really minor stuff.

Honestly, we absolutely love these machines. These machines only cut aluminum for us but once I have an offset dialed in, I don't touch it for months. We have several holes with -0.000 , +.0005 and have no problem interpolating these all day. About 2 years ago, I fat fingered an offset and ended up cracking the clamping pucks under the tombstone. Had the part the next day and super easy to swap out. With that said, about 1 month ago, I had to change out the window and it took a week to get. I don't know if it because of COVID but they did not have the part in stock in the states.

Only other suggestion is to get the Data Server option from Fanuc. Drag and drop programs from a laptop and way more memory than the standard.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience!

Yes, if we get one we'd plan to get both the Data Server and the AICC 400 Block + Nano Smoothing.

One question that seems unclear, did yours come standard with 0i or 31i? I think they brand them as Mpro I or Mpro III, and some brochures suggest that Mpro III is standard while others suggest that Mpro I is standard.

Really good to hear that support/parts availability in the States has been good.

wishin4snow · Aug 31, 2020

mutiny said:
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!

Yes, if we get one we'd plan to get both the Data Server and the AICC 400 Block + Nano Smoothing.

One question that seems unclear, did yours come standard with 0i or 31i? I think they brand them as Mpro I or Mpro III, and some brochures suggest that Mpro III is standard while others suggest that Mpro I is standard.

Really good to hear that support/parts availability in the States has been good.

I had to laugh about the control question. The 450i came with the 31i. When the 540 came in, I noticed something was different. This had the Oi control. I was not happy because our Salesman knew we were happy with the 450i. Why would he not spec out the same control? It may have been a line of bullshit, but he contacted CNC Systems (Importer) and they said that the 31i isn't even put on machines shipped to the states anymore and that the brochures were outdated. Our distributor added all the extra offsets and options to make it comparable to a 31i. They even changed out that stupid half keyboard to a full keyboard. I haven't noticed any difference on my end but our parts are prismatic.

mutiny · Aug 31, 2020

wishin4snow said:
I had to laugh about the control question. The 450i came with the 31i. When the 540 came in, I noticed something was different. This had the Oi control. I was not happy because our Salesman knew we were happy with the 450i. Why would he not spec out the same control? It may have been a line of bullshit, but he contacted CNC Systems (Importer) and they said that the 31i isn't even put on machines shipped to the states anymore and that the brochures were outdated. Our distributor added all the extra offsets and options to make it comparable to a 31i. They even changed out that stupid half keyboard to a full keyboard. I haven't noticed any difference on my end but our parts are prismatic.

I've been told that 31i is optional but not really necessary unless you're putting a trunnion on it for 5ax work. But I do know that 31i has up to 1000 block lookahead vs. only 400 on 0i, and we would be doing a good bit of 3D surfacing, but not sure it's worth what I'm sure is a considerable increase in cost. But maybe it's not considerable? I may ask about it.

jayeff1 · Apr 21, 2021

This thread is old, but for reference, we have an Averex 6APC HS-450 and a standard HS-450. Averex machines are solid. Infact at the moment, we are negotiating to purchase an Averex HS-540 6APC.

For reference we have (6) Makinos & (6) Kitamuras, a bunch of Mori's, then a few Hyundai-Wia's. The Averex machines hold their own when measured against the performance of the rest of our fleet.

Pre-corona virus, in those few instances where we needed parts, they were generally available. In the middle of corona virus, there was a hiccup or two, but no worse than what we were seeing with other machine tool suppliers dealing with overseas connections.

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Averex/Akari HMC - Experiences?

mutiny

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as9100d

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Ianagos

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mutiny

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Ianagos

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as9100d

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Ianagos

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as9100d

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mutiny

Cast Iron

mutiny

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mutiny

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wishin4snow

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as9100d

Stainless

mutiny

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wishin4snow

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mutiny

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jayeff1

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