B&S CNC poorman's retrofit

trioautomach · Sep 17, 2013

We have been playing around with a simple and easy performance enhancer for our old B&S screwmachines based on easy to aquire components. It has helped immensely to tame these old machines. The following link says it all.
Brown & Sharpe CNC retrofit - YouTube
By replacing the middle gear shaft on the cycle gear train with a servo we can drive the cam train & trip dogs in any direction at speeds from 10 seconds to infinitely slow. It doesn't require any drilling or welding and can be removed as fast as changing gears. The heavy lifting of collet closing, indexing and spindle shifting is still done by backshaft motor. Now if we have trouble with one tool we can slow just that tool down. Or even add a pull out on a drill if it needs one by backing up alittle ( if no conflict with other tools) and getting thread feeds just right is only a matter of keystrokes. We can use programmable dwells and loop programs to count cycles and stop for inspection and beep. Let your imagination go to work.
The system consists of a PC with hobbyist software , a power supply, a little black box and a servo motor. The final arrangement cost less than $1500

trioautomach · Sep 23, 2013

Yea we like it too. it has tamed our old Brown & Sharpes considerably and even though it hasn't happened yet all it takes to put things back is remove servo on it's standoff, replace gear stud and put the door back on. More recent surplus prices could probably bring the cost down to less than $1000. I also like the discipline it enforces by stopping at what ever count we want for inspection. Not only that but it makes you feel like you are working on a more modern piece of equipment. We plan on adding one to all our machines.

Limy Sami · Sep 23, 2013

camscan said:
I like it I like it I like it

Calm down dear, calm down.

dkmc · Sep 23, 2013

There is (was??) a company out there that offered a 1 axis cnc upgrade to older
B&S screw machines.....and I think the cost was around $7500....for probably no more
hardware/software than you describe!

Sounds/looks very interesting......might be an excuse for me to dig out
that old 00 I drug in 10 years ago and never did anything with....

twabscs · Sep 24, 2013

Excellent! Trio, can you share a bit more info like the specific software, servo size, etc. I have a few screw machines in need of some updating.

trioautomach · Sep 24, 2013

Sure, it will take me a few days to get some details....... the software may be the hold up as i'm not sure if it still available... it is called CNC Pro, it was open source.... a hobbyist put it together 10+ years ago, you may want to check on that.....been thinking about switching to Mach3 but that is alot more complicated.... the servo is 1100 in/oz w/ encoder, for the #2, the OO is less....i used gears from the B&S set, i'll have to see which ones... the black box is a Gecko 340.... power supply is .... the max that Gecko will take, i'll get back on that.....also a 1GHZ processor speed PC is minimum but those are easy to find now. a notebook makes an even cleaner layout.... i mounted a "home" micro switch on the trip dog shaft where the pickup arm cam would mount... also added a toggle switch connected to micro switch that stops everything at zero when enabled .... that's all off top-o-my head but i will dig up more info soon. it has been more like hobby for me. I am constantly smiling when i come up with a work around on a layout that this unit offers. I call it the Gizmo around the shop. When you put a computer on anything it automatically becomes smarter. Camtronics, Dan Mauch is a good source for surplus.

doug6949 · Sep 25, 2013

CNCPro is still available on its yahoo group forum. The activation code has been removed and source code is available if you want to tinker with it.

The archives from the original yeagerautomation yahoo forum are also still accessible.

trioautomach · Sep 28, 2013

Also the servo is a NEMA 23 frame size and the gears came from the B&S set with a 35 on the servo and 65 on the driven shaft. That gave the best speed to power balance for the size of the system. That should be enough to get you started and when you need further info let me know. email is [email protected], website.... triomach.webs.com. There will be some settings in the software to deal with too. More advantages I will crow about are that crashes are much less catastrophic since the closed loop servo kicks out way before safety clutch does and you can operate the collet, spindle or turret with out having to advance the cam shaft. Did i mention programmable dwells. Good luck.

trioautomach · Jan 31, 2014

I have had enough interest in this project to offer a set of plans if anyone is interested. Includes all info needed as well as where to find components, etc. $200 ea makes it worth my while and the return on the money will pay for it's self in first couple of jobs by reduction in frustration and a sense of control. reply here if interested. Thanks. TRIO. MN.

rds6709 · Feb 1, 2014

I would be interested. Does it work on ultras also, by just removing drive motor?

RD

rds6709 · Feb 1, 2014

Back in the 70s someone offered a retro to eliminate the lead cam. Part of the reason I went

to cnc was by the time I bought cams and form tools I was usually at $700 before I got started.

Customers didn't want to pay up front. Now I mostly use brownies for long parts I run parts up to

6' loading from the back threading either ID or OD.

RD

Ox · Feb 1, 2014

I can see value in this if it at least controlled the endslide, but in this case - it just varies the feed shaft speed.

How big'a help is that? :skep:

A Servo-Cam would seem to be 10x the usefullness of this. ???

------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

trioautomach · Mar 13, 2014

B&S servo

rds6709 said:
I would be interested. Does it work on ultras also, by just removing drive motor?

RD

I have not tried it on Ultra but don't see why it couldn't be made to fit. All it consists of is to remove the stud for the 2 middle cycle gears and bolt a servo there instead engaged to the driven shaft. Requires removing gear door and placing something in micro switch for door. I used a piece of barend placed under switch for a squarebase #2. Picture the old G models and what happens when you crank the wheel by hand. Forward or backward at what ever speed. Only w/ the computer you can add buzzers, I/O's, dwells, loop and count down to stop,etc. It allows alot more control and imagination and if it isn't needed you just unbolt it and put the gears back in. No other mounting necessary other than a homing switch. If that were on a magbase then it would be completely independent. Of course it is not the same as fully CNCd machine but at the price it offers alot of enhancement. Another side effect is that i can operate backshaft to activate tripdogs w/o moving camshaft. Which means i can open and close collet, shift gears and index turret w/o the cams moving because the backshaft and cam shaft are now separated. etc , etc.
Our email is [email protected] put Gizmo Video in subject line so it doesn't go to Spam if you are interested in more info.
Thanks, Dave.

trioautomach · Mar 13, 2014

Hello RD, I accidentally sent you a reply at end of thread instead of after yours. See below.

trioautomach · Jun 11, 2014

We are installing this system on our Ultramatic. Will let you know how it works out. Every time we do another install we come up with more improvements. I wouldn't own a B&S if we didn't have this until on it.

trioautomach · Aug 25, 2020

It's been a few more years of using this setup on 3 different B&S screwmachines and there is no way I would keep running these machines with out one.
So I added a page to our website with more info and a price I estimate makes it worth my while to pass on this gizmo info.
triomach.webs.com
I will soon be posting more videos there as well.
As I am closing in on retirement I may make this some kind of hobbie that pays if possible.
Go take a look if you run Brown&Sharpe screw machines.

dkmc · Aug 25, 2020

It's very interesting. More videos and details please!

trioautomach · Sep 17, 2020

dkmc said:
It's very interesting. More videos and details please![/QUO
Hello.... I have posted a bunch of info on our website and more vdo's.
triomach.webs.com
thanks for interest.

B&S CNC poorman's retrofit

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