Beginner CNC Machine for making Titanium Rings

Hi Guys,
Please recommend me a setup (less than $50k prefer)
I'm looking to produce titanium, titanium wedding bands (low quantity) may be 20/day. I've been searching for a newbie friendly cnc machine to make the process easier.
I've been playing around with a manual Sherline lathe and mill to cut grooves for titanium ring and drill holes for jewels. I would like to start making titanium ring from solid rods instead of modifying blanks like I've been doing. I sell about 8-12 rings/day so I don't need a really high end machine that can crank out hundreds of rings per day.
I have 0 CNC experience, so something newbie friendly that I can learn on the job would be great. I have a civil Eng. background so I can probably learn quick. I think it's similar to learning Java, or C++ or AutoCAD Civil 3D etc...
I have found ringtech.com machine videos and they work amazing for wedding bands. The software is very very noob friendly as well. All the profiles are pretty much preloaded and the user just change some parameters such as width, size, thickness, radius, etc... The downside is the $250k price tag. Since I'm not looking for such high end machine what would be a similar setup?
Right now I stock rings with difference styles (size 4 to 15 including half sizes, 30-50 rings each size) The cost of stocking 50 styles would be 150k+, so I thought with a CNC machine I can just stock titanium rods and produce the ring (style/size) based on customer request.
Example: If I get the Tormach 770MX when it comes out this winter and learn Pathpilot, can I create a profile for a ring style and save it and then later load it and just change the parameter for ring sizes / width / thickness?
How hard is it to program a curve interior cut for the comfort fit style?
Is it possible to find and pay someone to create those ring profiles? I can provide picture of existing styles I would like to be able to produce. They are mostly very simple flat or domed wedding bands with some grooves or holes for jewels, etc.

I am going to respond, only because you didn't mention Toy Machinery (although Tormach is on the line), and you are willing to use a professional investment amount.

You ask a lot of questions in a single post, but you need to ask better questions. New or Used? Memory? Interface usability? Set-up? Complexity of parts? Future parts? Floor Space? Tech support? Enclosure size? Bar feeder? XZ or XZC or XZCY? Software or Conversational or Fat-finger? Reliability? Acceptability? QC standards? etc. etc. etc.

Seems like you know what you want to do, and it seems like you want to do it professionally. Seems like you have a lot to learn and read about CNC before you take the plunge, but others have done it, and are still alive to talk about it. BTW Being a Civil Engineer is not a qualification to getting into this business. And to be honest you sort of insulted us by saying it. I can do computer stuff---it's the same right? NOPE, it't not. Good luck, read and ask better questions.

Sincerely, R

@OP

I have a titanium wedding band... Black. Comfort fit too. [ work with horses + double sets of reins between the fingers / pain in the arse with normal wedding band.].

In your case assuming you can find the right "thing" to do what you want it to do.

How are you finishing these ?

AND how many of these rings do you have to sell to pay for your $50K investment... And then after that how many years and how many rings do you figure you can or will sell … (Assuming the bottom of the Titanium ring "Market" doesn't fall out).

[I have a brother in law that used to be a hands on jeweler and he did all kinds of CAD/CAM and mold work as well as hands on more artsy stuff.].

I'm just wondering if there is someone on PM forum that can supply these for you on the "Side".

I was thinking how do you get from Bridge bearings and box girder bridges to titanium wedding bands ?

__________________

I have some ideas but... wonder about surface finish and treatments.

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I was going to let this one sink 'cuz it just didn't vibe quite right but now Littlerob1 's involved you never know what's going to happen. (There is no emoticon for that). or maybe this one

I checked on Amazon - a search for "titanium wedding bands" brought 200K hits, and searching a more refined term still resulted in tens of thousands of listings, starting at five bucks.

Are you sure you can make a business case for this line of work? And do you have the sales and marketing resources and time to make your products stand out?

Oh I didn't mean to insult. I just wanted to point out my background so you guys can guide me to the right direction. Ok here is a simplified question. If I want to make around 20 titanium wedding bands per day using CNC machine instead of the damn small manual Sherline lathe and mill what setup should I get given the budget is $50k and I am a newbie when it come to CNC????
What would YOU get if YOU are a newbie like me?
Memory? IU? Setup? Complexity of parts? Future parts? Tech support? blah blah blah...Of course I want the best of all of those things and other things that you might come up with given my budget is $50k If you think I need to increase my budget or something or just say it's not doable with $50k or I would just get junk machines with that budget then tell me so.
I ran across several youtube vids of a Tormach turning titanium and their website mention milling turning thru titanium like butter, so I mentioned it. Pathpilot looks to be easy enough to learn. If Tormach machine is junk then just tell this newbie it's not a reliable machine for making titanium rings and tell me a better setup. Was it very hard for you when you first learned G-Code and CNC programming? If it make you feel better, I no longer think I can learn CNC stuff quickly because I have learned multiple computer programming languages. Is there any interface for CNC similar to EZCAD for fiber laser engraver? I taught myself how to use the fiber laser engraver to engrave inside and outside of rings
I'm a part time Civil Eng only do contract work, so I have alot of time. I started making titanium wedding bands as a hobby so I bought myself the Sherline Lathe and Mill, Benchtop Sandblast, Anodizer to turn titanium into diff colors, ion plating kit, laser engraver to engrave inside and outside of the rings. I taught myself how to do all of the above in a couple months and started turning the hobby into a business and I've been selling about 8-12 rings per day, but it is because of the slow turn around time. If I have a CNC setup I could probably sell more because right now it takes me average 5 days to ship out a ring from order date. This turn alot of people down because ALOT of them wait till 2-3 days before the wedding to get the ring.

Alot of these can be done faster with a CNC machine and help me save time. Please help me get the right setup now that you see what I need to do to make a ring

Ok right now my total cost, fees, everything is $15/ring and I sell them at $80/ring (I sell 8-12/day). I don't want to go into details of how I sell them, but I can tell you it aint Amazon or Ebay. I have my own website and a couple shops on other portals such as Etsy :-)
You can google Spexton. They are the ones that inspired me. I don't really care how long it take for me to make back the $50k investment. The fund is hobby fund so it doesn't matter if I don't make it back, beside I have made quite enough to be happy. If there's anything that help me make those rings faster I would be happy. My friend has a Toyota for work commute, a pickup truck for hauling his fishing boat, and he just bought a $55k sporty 2 door lexus as a weekend rider. I don't want any of those things my hobby is making rings. I was happy when I didn't make any money with those rings I made when I started the hobby.

Those $15 bucks rings on Amazon can't be customzied. I can make the ring as you requested. Any color birthstone, 1, 2, 3 grooves. You want spider man or mickey on your ring? :-D

Sounds like you've got your ducks (rings?) in a row, very good. I'd not trust a Tormach for cutting Ti like "butter", but used right it could work.

Perhaps checking out this thread would give you some ideas: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...-footprint-vmc-cnc-lathe-home-garages-352843/ The equipment that comes up there would likely be useful to you too (no fighting over it, now).

Just to give you some idea of what you are actually talking about, titanium is one of the more difficult materials to cut. The low budget machines you are considering are barely suitable for working aluminum, much less alloy steel or the easier to machine super-alloys. Titanium is another step above that. For any sort of real work you want a very heavy, super rigid machine. A Haas is barely suitable for titanium work, and our Kitamura horizontal was only marginally better. Machine tools are usually specifically designed to do titanium work because it is so unforgiving. Now you are talking low numbers, no accuracy or tolerance, so that certainly makes the job easier, but you still need to start with a much more robust machine than something you might carry around your garage. A small lathe suitable for titanium work would be weighed in tons, not pounds. You should be looking at well maintained used machines instead of new toy machines.

Winterfalke said:

Just to give you some idea of what you are actually talking about, titanium is one of the more difficult materials to cut. The low budget machines you are considering are barely suitable for working aluminum, much less alloy steel or the easier to machine super-alloys. Titanium is another step above that. For any sort of real work you want a very heavy, super rigid machine. A Haas is barely suitable for titanium work, and our Kitamura horizontal was only marginally better. Machine tools are usually specifically designed to do titanium work because it is so unforgiving. Now you are talking low numbers, no accuracy or tolerance, so that certainly makes the job easier, but you still need to start with a much more robust machine than something you might carry around your garage. A small lathe suitable for titanium work would be weighed in tons, not pounds. You should be looking at well maintained used machines instead of new toy machines.

Click to expand...

Have you ever machined titanium?
This post makes my brain hurt.

Good stuff Anthony, I like your attitude! You are on the right path and will find what you need here. Take it slow and stay happy doing what you love. I know a guy who deals in used machines. He is retiring and has a few small Hardinge machines in real good shape retrofitted with Fagor controls. I'll see what he has and try to send you a link.

Make Chips Boys !

Ron

I see a very famous mouse in one of those pics...

Be careful with that, that is one company you don't want knocking on your door.

In my opinion, if I wanted to make an investment going CNC to make your product I would not go hobby shop machines.
They have a place, but in my opinion they are very light duty, very light on power, not fully enclosed...conversational programming with lots of little canned cycles that you input values to choices is a crutch.
If I was planning to machine Ti as my main product material, I want some beef in my machine and I want to program machine to do exactly what I want when I want, I do not want to be constricted to standard machine routines.

I'd skip new and look into a used CNC, something small like a Haas SL-10. Low end of the CNC spectrum, but they are versatile and can make what you want and be in your budget. Parts, tooling and programming all standard stuff.

Programming a CNC is not all that difficult, think of your program as making a line on graph paper and you go from point to point in either straight (linear) lines or curves going left or right. Add some spindle speeds and feeds and thats it...kinda almost.

Machines are dead stupid, everything machine needs to do you need to tell it to do using G-Code which is just the language the machine understands. S is for Speed spindle should turn, M3 or M4 Tells Spindle to turn forward or reverse.

So the command line would be-

S500 M3

That turns spindle forward at 500rpm

G0 is a rapid move
G1 is a linear Feed move
G2 is a clockwise arc

There is alot to know, but look online, look at Haas Website they have manuals and lots of tutorials.


My point is I would not want to be limited by my machines abilities, I want to design and program machine to make what I want. I do not want to figure out how I can get a machine to drill a hole that lacks the power to do so...so its a small hole, followed by a larger one, then boring bars. Small tiny cuts and playing with tooling to hold up. I want to program at rates tooling was meant for so coolant may be needed, so a full enclosure is needed or you'll be doing a ton of cleaning...even dry you will have hot chips flying from a lathe.
If at a later point you need to make more then 20pcs a day, the machine is more then up to the task.

If you contact your machine tool suppliers they can usually send you to shops running their machines. You can alos look up used machines online and go out and see some of these running. That is how I learned what I needed, wanted, could afford to buy. It helped me figure out what size machine, narrowed down the year and control. Also seeing the machines in action allowed me to see how machines ran in real life applications. I saw high end machines peel away material and motor hardly flinched...saw a Haas take a 1/3 of that in a aluminum and heard the motor working as sheet metal shuttered til it found its groove. What kind of tooling, how they were setup...


I'll stop here for know...

Have any further questions or concerns...keep them coming we have lots of great info here. Use it, don't use it or allow it to create new considerations.

Thanks guys for the inputs. So now I learn that those videos on youtube about the Tormach machining Titanium are just ads..probably made by paid professionals to show the top capability of the machine. See, you don't know what to believe anymore. After dealing with some of the manufacturers (for laser engraver) I would rather build myself a cabin/small shop somewhere in the woods, raise some chickens/pigs, plant some vegies and turn wood rings for a hobby...

Thanks for all the warning guys! I wouldn't say I have machined Ti. I have made Aluminum rings from Aluminum rod. As for Ti all I have done was cutting grooves on Ti ring blanks for metal wire inlay as shown in some pics. The milling parts I have done was making flat face on the Ti ring, drill holes for stone inlay. I mean I've been doing these things daily to make the final rings, but that's far from being able to machine a Ti ring from a solid rod right? The only think keep me from trying is the low torque on the Sherline. I have to run it at low speed for Ti so I need a motor with higher torque at lower rpm. For the milling and drilling part, I do the same thing...150 sfm, shadow drill and repeat (called tapping?) and lots of coolant.
The main problems with machining Ti is work harden and tool life? I've been doing low sfm, moderate to high feed rate, lots of lubs and coolant to keep the tool cool. It's been so far so good for me.

The Sherlines somehow do those jobs just fine manually and they are super tiny, 5k/piece. That was what made me think I could easily machine Ti with a 50k more heavy setup.

Thanks SIM for the head up with G-Code. I have done some reading and found it's about as hard as assembly language, which I used to write drivers for modems, motorola cell phones (old gen), calculators, etc. I'm really confident I can learn it.

There are also some G-Code simulators to play with.

If 50k won't do it I might just upgrade my Sherlines to CNC, install Mach3 on a laptop and play around (cutting Delrin rings for practice) Once I get to know more and get better with CNC then I will up my budget to 100k and find a good setup. If the wife say anything I will tell her the Hermes bags, Chanel bags she has bought over the years would be more than my hobby machine and I have a better chance at making those money back :-P

I'm drooling at this RingTech CNC. They claim a newbie with no CNC experience can use it and from the first 2 video clips I believe it. The 3rd vid shows making damascus steel ring, 4th Ti Ring.
Ringtech User Interface overview - YouTube
Ringtech Software program creation - YouTube
Damascus steel machining - YouTube
Machining Titanium - YouTube

Is there another similar setup that doesn't cost 250k? I mean the same easy to use UI, lower quality machine may be? Like if the RingTech is like those high end Japanese CNC Mori, Mazak then I only need a Haas quality or lower but does the same thing :-D. To be honest if that RingTech setup is anywhere near the 100k I would really strongly consider it.

Shop I used to work at, we used a Mazak Quick Turn 15 with live tooling to make some Ti wedding bands for guys in the shop.

With the live tooling we were able to make some unique designs in the rings. And conversational programming is very easy on those.

One could be had used for well under 20K all tooled up.

Winterfalke said:

For any sort of real work you want a very heavy, super rigid machine. A Haas is barely suitable for titanium work, and our Kitamura horizontal was only marginally better.

Click to expand...

He's not making 5 tons parts, he's making wedding bands.

mneuro said:

Shop I used to work at, we used a Mazak Quick Turn 15 with live tooling to make some Ti wedding bands for guys in the shop.

With the live tooling we were able to make some unique designs in the rings. And conversational programming is very easy on those.

One could be had used for well under 20K all tooled up.

Click to expand...

Thanks, As Milland suggested, too. I'm looking at those used CNC options.
Making an Aged Whiskey Barrel and Deer Antler Ring - YouTube
Mini Lathe Turning Titanium Ring Video #64 - YouTube
Turning titanium taper - YouTube
If you search youtube "making titanium ring with mini lathe" you will see there are many people that do that on their cheap mini lathes. I think it just take longer with a manual lathe and the comfort fit profile inside the ring will be hard with a manual lathe, but it's def. doable.

These people turn Ti on Mini Lathe, cheap Chinese made 7x12 lathe without any coolant. There gotta be a CNC setup that can do it. Now I wish South Bend make CNC versions of their lathes.


I will try to do the same ring as the guy in the 1st video on my Sherline mini lathe and see how it goes. If it turn out well, I will upgrade my Sherline to CNC. Once I have written all the G-Code for a ring style can I just save as a macro or something similar and recall it to use later on if I have to make the same exact ring? That would def save me alot of time long term.
For example: I will learn how to write a complete G-Code routine for a ring style and save it in a folder and name Style 01-09, Style 02-10 (for Style 01 Size 9, Style 02 Size 10) and so on. When a customer order that ring style I can just go to that folder and reload the macro or file for that size?
If there's no function to save such work and I have to program the CNC machine every single time then it won't be worth it.

eBay - Turning Center


With any of these you should be able to make hundreds per day if not thousands. And Ti isn't that hard to cut if you have the right tooling and cutting parameters.

Anthonytn79 said:

For example: I will learn how to write a complete G-Code routine for a ring style and save it in a folder and name Style 01-09, Style 02-10 (for Style 01 Size 9, Style 02 Size 10) and so on. When a customer order that ring style I can just go to that folder and reload the macro or file for that size?
If there's no function to save such work and I have to program the CNC machine every single time then it won't be worth it.

Click to expand...

Well sure, you can save programs and rerun them for later orders. I would think the only issue might be having the right tooling set up to run all your jobs. As everything you make is very similar, that probably won't be a big deal. If I were you, I'd take some of these guys advice get a not-too-old higher end CNC before I get anything like a hobby machine. The power and rigidity will just be way better.

Personally, I would think you'd be better served by getting a well-maintained Monarch 10EE or the like, since your volumes are low. But like you said, it's a hobby, so you have to do it how you think it will be most entertaining!