Best Lathe insert for Machining SS

msayani2 · Mar 29, 2017

I was looking at options for a CNMG / WNMG insert that would be best at cutting Stainless steels:

couple of options i have:

1. Sandvik 2025 & 2220
2. Tungaloy (dont know the grade)
3. SECO TM2000
4. Walter WSM20S with NMS or RM5 chipbreaker
5. Sumitomo AC6030M

The above are brands that we have a good relationship with. We also have good relationship with Korloy and Kyocera. Just wanted to hear others' experience testing out grades.

I would do testing but generally dont have so much orders in one shot of SS316 that i can test all of them with so i have to stick with top 2 or 3. and then narrow down. So im hoping someone does a lot of mass production of ss316 parts.

Thank you.

Arc-On · Mar 29, 2017

I do a fair amount of stainless, and I've had outstanding luck with the Iscar Sumo Tec WNMG inserts. Specifically WNMG 080408-M3M. My buddy's shop does more stainless than anything else, and he turned me on to them. He mass produces conveyor shells and rollers out of stainless by the ton.

Guest · Mar 29, 2017

Why in 2017 with the wealth of information at your finger tips do people still say "stainless" when it covers such a wide range of difficulty to machine? You can mow through 416 almost like it is brass, use 416 feeds and speeds on 17-4 and your tooling won't make it through the first part.

Arc-On · Mar 29, 2017

Dualkit said:
Why in 2017 with the wealth of information at your finger tips do people still say "stainless" when it covers such a wide range of difficulty to machine? You can mow through 416 almost like it is brass, use 416 feeds and speeds on 17-4 and your tooling won't make it through the first part.

Fair enough. My bad for not specifying. I do mostly 304 and some 316. The inserts I specified will work fine for 316, which is what OP has listed. I don't have experience turning 416 or 17-4, but I suspect the insert won't matter as much as feeds and speeds.

SND · Mar 29, 2017

Sandvik's 1115, 1125, haven't tried 1105 yet, should be great for finishing in a rigid enough machine, they're much better than the 2025 grade.
I still have a couple insert shapes I have to use in 2025 because they don't make them in the 11xx grade.
Obviously the chip breaker style on it will have a noticeable effect as well.

WABOOM · Mar 29, 2017

Seco TP2500, or TM4000

XD341 · Mar 29, 2017

Just ran a 1K pc order of 5 inch 316 parts. Moved a bunch of material, the Sumitomo 6030's are good, the Sandvik 2025 grade is slightly less durable but also good. I ran a boring bar with Sumi AC530 which is an exotic material grade and that actually held up better than the same insert in 6030. So...I might start with the 6030 and try the AC530. No experience with Seco

Lastuneste · Mar 29, 2017

We turn a fair amount of 316. Tried a bunch of different SECO inserts: TP2501, TP3500, TM2000, TM4000... For easier 316 setups we default to TP2501, and if it doesn't work out, then TM4000. The nice thing about TM4000 is, it wears out gradually rather than exploding catastrophically. I wish I could compare these experiences more widely to other brands though.

Jashley73 · Mar 29, 2017

I work for Seco, and since our grades have been mentioned a couple times I want to clear a couple things up.

TP2500 was a fantastic grade for steels & sometimes stainless steels too, but it's now been replaced by TP2501. TP2501 might get you by in a pinch for 300-series stainless, but it's a thicker coating with a more rounded edge-condition, and will probably create built-up-edge problems in gummy stainless. It's more suited for steels & would probably work fine in 400-series stainless.

The TM2000 grade is dangerously close to the previous TP2500, and is an excellent choice for 300-series stainless, particularly with the MF4 chip-breaker. I've personally won some tests with this TM2000/MF4 combination in 316ss.

TM4000 is one of Seco's toughest substrates, and while it still has a heat resistant Aluminum Oxide coating, the substrate is ideally suited for very rough cutting conditions and severe interruptions. I have one customer use this TM4000 grade in the mother of all interrupted steel turning applications, and it does great. It's a good combination of tough-substrate for the demanding interruptions, but also has heat-resistance when you need to turn the coolant off for these interruptions.

For a go-to 300-series Stainless Insert, go TM2000 with the MF4 chipbreaker.

Shop Supply Guru · Mar 29, 2017

Jashley73 said:
I work for Seco, and since our grades have been mentioned a couple times I want to clear a couple things up.

TP2500 was a fantastic grade for steels & sometimes stainless steels too, but it's now been replaced by TP2501. TP2501 might get you by in a pinch for 300-series stainless, but it's a thicker coating with a more rounded edge-condition, and will probably create built-up-edge problems in gummy stainless. It's more suited for steels & would probably work fine in 400-series stainless.

The TM2000 grade is dangerously close to the previous TP2500, and is an excellent choice for 300-series stainless, particularly with the MF4 chip-breaker. I've personally won some tests with this TM2000/MF4 combination in 316ss.

TM4000 is one of Seco's toughest substrates, and while it still has a heat resistant Aluminum Oxide coating, the substrate is ideally suited for very rough cutting conditions and severe interruptions. I have one customer use this TM4000 grade in the mother of all interrupted steel turning applications, and it does great. It's a good combination of tough-substrate for the demanding interruptions, but also has heat-resistance when you need to turn the coolant off for these interruptions.

For a go-to 300-series Stainless Insert, go TM2000 with the MF4 chipbreaker.

I've had a few customers bash the TP2501 when they used to love the TP2500. I've also heard the Seco Steel grade with the s/s breaker kicks butt in s/s. Thoughts JAshley?

Lastuneste · Mar 29, 2017

Jashley73 said:
I work for Seco, and since our grades have been mentioned a couple times I want to clear a couple things up.

TP2500 was a fantastic grade for steels & sometimes stainless steels too, but it's now been replaced by TP2501. TP2501 might get you by in a pinch for 300-series stainless, but it's a thicker coating with a more rounded edge-condition, and will probably create built-up-edge problems in gummy stainless. It's more suited for steels & would probably work fine in 400-series stainless.

The TM2000 grade is dangerously close to the previous TP2500, and is an excellent choice for 300-series stainless, particularly with the MF4 chip-breaker. I've personally won some tests with this TM2000/MF4 combination in 316ss.

TM4000 is one of Seco's toughest substrates, and while it still has a heat resistant Aluminum Oxide coating, the substrate is ideally suited for very rough cutting conditions and severe interruptions. I have one customer use this TM4000 grade in the mother of all interrupted steel turning applications, and it does great. It's a good combination of tough-substrate for the demanding interruptions, but also has heat-resistance when you need to turn the coolant off for these interruptions.

For a go-to 300-series Stainless Insert, go TM2000 with the MF4 chipbreaker.

Ah well, I guess I'll give TM2000 another try next time I see TP2501 in our setup data!

Jashley73 · Mar 29, 2017

Shop Supply Guru said:
I've had a few customers bash the TP2501 when they used to love the TP2500. I've also heard the Seco Steel grade with the s/s breaker kicks butt in s/s. Thoughts JAshley?

There's been some heartburn. Usually not too hard to fix.

avongil · Apr 1, 2017

For 316 I use Toshiba: CNMG432-SM T6120
I find the SM chip breaker and the hard insert works great and lasts a long time (relatively speaking)

For heavy roughing I have tested for days and came up interestingly with:
ISCAR LNMX 150616R-HT IC8250

I try not to use proprietary stuff, but it is getting through 3x more parts per insert. The inserts don't cost any more than ISO inserts so no loss. Beware I have tried the harder recommended IC908 grade and it lasted 9 parts vs 40.

I am doing quite a bit of 316 these days. It was a pain in the rear to find out what inserts worked, please post your results!

gregormarwick · Apr 1, 2017

avongil said:
For 316 I use Toshiba: CNMG432-SM T6120
I find the SM chip breaker and the hard insert works great and lasts a long time (relatively speaking)

For heavy roughing I have tested for days and came up interestingly with:
ISCAR LNMX 150616R-HT IC8250

I try not to use proprietary stuff, but it is getting through 3x more parts per insert. The inserts don't cost any more than ISO inserts so no loss. Beware I have tried the harder recommended IC908 grade and it lasted 9 parts vs 40.

I am doing quite a bit of 316 these days. It was a pain in the rear to find out what inserts worked, please post your results!

Those LNMX inserts are very nice material removers. 5mm DOC and .8mm/r in 4145H. Problem I had with them was that the failures were catastrophic for the holder, and happened too abruptly for the operator to react.

manta · Apr 1, 2017

I use tungaloy CNMG 431-SF AH630 on 303 to 316, haven't tried any of the other one's mentioned. We do mainly stainless at the shop I work and it seems to hold up pretty well

ricardo_gt · Apr 1, 2017

SND said:
Sandvik's 1115, 1125, haven't tried 1105 yet, should be great for finishing in a rigid enough machine, they're much better than the 2025 grade.
I still have a couple insert shapes I have to use in 2025 because they don't make them in the 11xx grade.
Obviously the chip breaker style on it will have a noticeable effect as well.

....X2....

Shop Supply Guru · Apr 1, 2017

manta said:
I use tungaloy CNMG 431-SF AH630 on 303 to 316, haven't tried any of the other one's mentioned. We do mainly stainless at the shop I work and it seems to hold up pretty well

My current Ph Horn rep used to work for Tungaloy and he always mentions that there s/s grades couldn't compete with Seco in particular. You may want to get some freebies from Seco, Walter, Iscar and see how they compare.

Lastuneste · Apr 1, 2017

Speaking of 316 inserts, any favourites for inside and outside grooving? We just ran a job with a 10mm wide inside groove where Horn 4mm inserts exploded at random while Iscar 908 (also 4mm) left a nicer finish and lasted a while longer. (I will fill in the more detailed insert names when I can actually see them)

Ridethelighting · Apr 1, 2017

I use iscars 6015 and 6025 wnmx with 031 nose radi. Cuts for days. All 304 and 316. Minimum 450 sfm .012 ipr .1 -.2 depth of cut Depending on how much im chucking. That's conservative for their #s but it works. It makes chips super nice. Keeps filling the hopper. The 8250 is the bees knees too have some profiling and Ccmt inserts that grade. The sandvik 1125 great too. If not getting tool life with any of these it's not the carbide.

avongil · Apr 3, 2017

I had that problem with the 908 insert! It just shears apart. Try the softer substrates!

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