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Best path for gaining machining knowledge?

A

Arched

Plastic
Joined
Dec 4, 2021
My father wants me to potentially inherit his 40 year old machine shop business in 5+ years, but I was concerned about gaining enough knowledge to even have a reasonable chance of success. I currently work at the shop performing lathe operation and setup. It's a business very centralized on my father's knowledge but he usually criticizes me or gets upset when I ask questions, so I was looking for additional ways to supplement my learning. Do machinists typically go to community college, self-teach, or just primarily learn on the job?

For additional info, our shop has 15~ lathes and 15~ mills, mainly Mori Seiki (e.g. SL-200) and Kitamura (e.g. MyCenter 2X) respectively. My dad can handle quoting, CNC programming, setup and operation, manual machining, machine troubleshooting and repair, etc.
 
Arched said:
My father wants me to potentially inherit his 40 year old machine shop business in 5+ years, but I was concerned about gaining enough knowledge to even have a reasonable chance of success. I currently work at the shop performing lathe operation and setup. It's a business very centralized on my father's knowledge but he usually criticizes me or gets upset when I ask questions, so I was looking for additional ways to supplement my learning. Do machinists typically go to community college, self-teach, or just primarily learn on the job?
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A technical class of some kind would give you a different perspective and show Dad you were serious but the big thing here is going to be, Dad has to change his attitude if he wants you to take over. If you were a psychlogist maybe could figure this out, or read a bunch of books on relationships, or maybe a professional could help.

It's a relationship thing, not a machine shop thing.
 
Agree with EG. Dad may want to pass this on to you, but if you're reporting his interactions with you accurately then you're better off finding another shop to work at for five years, then coming back as the well-rounded journeyman.

I suspect your dad has invested himself so much in the shop that he may not be able to separate himself, no matter what he claims. As such, if you were to actually attain knowledge and not need him, that's totally disruptive to his self image. It's not an uncommon dynamic among smaller-scale founders.

And I specifically say "smaller-scale" as people with this personality can't grow the business...

[I'm not just a machinist, I'm a psychologist and sociologist too!]
 
Even if you gain the requisite experience/knowledge/skills over the next five years, chances are dear-old-dad would not be fair about your compensation and ownership.

Now is the time to discuss how it’s all going to shake out down the road.
If your dad isn’t reasonable and fair now, he surely won’t be when it’s time for him to walk out.

You don’t want to bust your ass and learn the business, just to make $100k, when dad is expecting multiples of that for setting at home retired…

Good luck with whatever path you take.

ToolCat
 
Beware of "Son..Someday this will all be yours"

If you like the business and want to learn more about it, get a job with the most successful competitor to your father's business. An added bonus would be to relocate. Often, separation from the security net of family is a good thing.
 
standardparts said:
Beware of "Son..Someday this will all be yours"

If you like the business and want to learn more about it, get a job with the most successful competitor to your father's business. An added bonus would be to relocate. Often, separation from the security net of family is a good thing.
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The reason they are called "relatives" is because it is best if they are relatively far away.

It sounds like a tough row to hoe, How long have you been working there? I agree with the comments above, now is the time for some regular heart to heart conversations, then pick a direction and map out a real plan you both can stick to and you both need to be in constant communication making sure the plan is being adhered to by both parties or you both will end up butt hurt and may never reconcile.

I worked in my fathers shop as a kid and a teen, I never gave a thought to taking it over, we were both too hard headed, though after he sold it off I did end up maintaining the making and selling of the stuff we used to make for him as the new owners of his shop were not interested.
 
Focus on the business and less on your father’s technical skill set. Ask him to explain the finances of the business and his intentions for retirement. Layout a purchase deal where you agree to buy the business with him as the lender. Be patient, it takes some time and several iterations to shape a plan like this. Stay focused on the broad objectives.

Go chase your own dreams if he will not work on a plan or he is not reasonable in his expectations. If you’re not going to become the leader, he needs to start planning a sale anyway.

I am in business with my kids as part-owners. My interests in the business are in a trust and they know they will inherit full ownership in it. They have access to all documents and financials. They operate it day-to-day and they all have a say in big decisions. That said, they have defined roles in the business with one being the chief.
 
standardparts said:
Beware of "Son..Someday this will all be yours"
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Just as bad, "employee, some day this will all be yours" Saw this 2x. Owner draining every penny of capitol and credit from business. Comes to employee(s) with offer. Work hard and cheap. At a later date will sell them business cheap. Old owner walks away debt free. New owners screwed blind.
 
kustomizer said:
The reason they are called "relatives" is because it is best if they are relatively far away.

It sounds like a tough row to hoe, How long have you been working there? I agree with the comments above, now is the time for some regular heart to heart conversations, then pick a direction and map out a real plan you both can stick to and you both need to be in constant communication making sure the plan is being adhered to by both parties or you both will end up butt hurt and may never reconcile.

I worked in my fathers shop as a kid and a teen, I never gave a thought to taking it over, we were both too hard headed, though after he sold it off I did end up maintaining the making and selling of the stuff we used to make for him as the new owners of his shop were not interested.
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I've been working here for 6 months now. It has been emotionally draining so far, but I do understand that it is a unique opportunity for me. Outside of interpersonal family affairs, I do think the work itself is interesting. I'm not really sure when my dad plans to retire or how that transition would occur, so I'll talk to him about it. I'm just concerned that I'll spend my formative years career-wise working here (I'm in my mid-20s) but then suddenly have to pivot to another company due to family issues.
 
QY:[Dad has to change his attitude if he wants you to take over.]
Unless you deserve such an attitude because you are too busy doing your thing rather than taking the shop seriously, or some other gainful interest seriously.

QT Op: (I'm in my mid-20s) but then suddenly have to pivot to another company/industry due to family issues.)
Mid 20s is about time to start thinking about where your meals might come from.

QT: [Now is the time to discuss how it’s all going to shake out down the road.} Perhaps dad could give the shop to a cousin and the cousin might give you the sweeper job.

McDonald's and Amazon are hiring little skilled people.

QT: [ I'm just concerned that I'll spend my formative years career-wise working here }
you should have //could have done some forming by mid-20s.

Good you are in California..you can buy a decent tent off craigslist for 50 bucks or so.

Coleman 5 person Tent - sporting goods - by owner - sale

I have a good friend who gave about 1/4 million $ property to the nephew because his son said "There is nothing wrong with a little pot. Now that son is responsible..but gone is gone.
 
A tech school would give great foundation. So would many community colleges.
After that, start DOING. You don't learn this any other way.
We all started in the same spot. Different ages, but the same place. Go for it!!
 
michiganbuck said:
QY:[Dad has to change his attitude if he wants you to take over.]
Unless you deserve such an attitude because you are too busy doing your thing rather than taking the shop seriously, or some other gainful interest seriously.

QT Op: (I'm in my mid-20s) but then suddenly have to pivot to another company/industry due to family issues.)
Mid 20s is about time to start thinking about where your meals might come from.

QT: [Now is the time to discuss how it’s all going to shake out down the road.} Perhaps dad could give the shop to a cousin and the cousin might give you the sweeper job.

McDonald's and Amazon are hiring little skilled people.

QY: [ I'm just concerned that I'll spend my formative years career-wise working here }
you should have //could have done some forming by mid-20s.

Good you are in California..you can buy a decent tent off craigslist for 50 bucks or so.

Coleman 5 person Tent - sporting goods - by owner - sale

I have a good friend who gave about 1/4 million $ property to the nephew because his son said "There is nothing wrong with a little pot. Now that son is responsible..but gone is gone.
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I am trying to take the shop seriously, but I know it's hard to gauge without observing me at the shop. I usually operate 10 lathes and check part tolerance + tool change as necessary, but I do want to learn more about the programming/CAM side and help with that aspect. In terms of the forming comment, I have a master's and job experience in a STEM field, but for machining I know I'm a greenhorn so I posted here to learn about the efficacy of machining classes as I planned to enroll in machining classes at a nearby community college.
 
Arched said:
I am trying to take the shop seriously, but I know it's hard to gauge without observing me at the shop. I usually operate 10 lathes and check part tolerance + tool change as necessary, but I do want to learn more about the programming/CAM side and help with that aspect. In terms of the forming comment, I have a master's and job experience in a STEM field, but for machining I know I'm a greenhorn so I posted here to learn about the efficacy of machining classes as I planned to enroll in machining classes at a nearby community college.
Click to expand...

Good that you added the rest of the story. Qt: [I planned to enroll in machining classes at a nearby community college.]...and you might take some business courses. keep close contact with your dad and seek his advice as he is the owner, and so serving some of his wishes may be beneficial.

All of that and perhaps 5 or 10 years to make the grade...

You might read some Dale Carnegie books along with doing all that.
 
Arched said:
I am trying to take the shop seriously, but I know it's hard to gauge without observing me at the shop. I usually operate 10 lathes and check part tolerance + tool change as necessary, but I do want to learn more about the programming/CAM side and help with that aspect. In terms of the forming comment, I have a master's and job experience in a STEM field, but for machining I know I'm a greenhorn so I posted here to learn about the efficacy of machining classes as I planned to enroll in machining classes at a nearby community college.
Click to expand...

OK, this changes things a bit for me. Is your Masters because you were interested in the field and because you planned on pursuing it?

If so - LEAVE NOW AND FIND YOUR DREAM!

Do NOT take over the shop just because Dad "wants you to". Just don't do it, you'll be unhappy as you go forward and not following your real path.

I say this having worked in STEM as a tech/machinist for most of my non-self employed career. If I'd had the full capability to be a real engineer that's what I'd have done (not that I regret being a machinist).

So, what's your Masters in? And did you want to go forward with it or something related?
 
One hypotheses: perhaps your dad has a plan for you, and you need to learn to walk before you can learn to run. Perhaps he believes you need more experience with what you're doing before worrying about higher level things like programming.
 
mhajicek said:
One hypotheses: perhaps your dad has a plan for you, and you need to learn to walk before you can learn to run. Perhaps he believes you need more experience with what you're doing before worrying about higher level things like programming.
Click to expand...
None of that matters. If there's no communication, there's only going to be heartbreak. To beat this dead horse, it's not a machining problem.

And if he's really got a master's in a stem field, probably better to get out unless he's a pig-headed cantankerous young bastard like us. Much more money with less stress in almost any other career.
 
For those old farts like me who had no clue what STEM was, here's a definition from the net...

STEM Education, at its core, simply means educating students in four specific disciplines, namely, Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (collectively shortened as STEM).

OK, so I am officially falling behind...:eek:
 
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