Best Used CNC Lathe (under $30k)

Looking for a new lathe at the place I work when we get the new capital budget next year. We currently have a fairly old CNC lathe that is run only for making internal-use tooling. The current lathe still runs well most of the time, however if there is a problem there is virtually no support or information for fixing it (it's an Amera-Seiki TC-20, and if you search it, good luck finding more than 3 results that aren't a TC-2L). There have been two times that it was down for over a month while a machine repair company was troubleshooting, waiting on parts, fixing, and testing it. Also required multiple techs to come in and look at it, because no one knew anything about this particular lathe. Because of this we are looking to upgrade before it breaks down again.

What I am looking for is a 2 axis lathe, 20+ hp, 2.5" min bar capacity, 4000+ max RPM spindle, and 12+ position tool turret. I will also need some sort of chip conveyor or chip other removal. Current lathe has x-travel 5.19" and z-travel 14.17", which are each perfectly adequate for what we turn on it. The current lathe has a footprint of 90" x 63", and it would be ideal to stay close to that. We do have the ability to shift things around for more space, but not a lot more. I'd also like to keep the price at or under $30k.

Disclaimer: I am largely self taught on the current lathe that we have, so I don't have a lot of other knowledge beyond what I've encountered. Feel free to give me more direction if anything I've said doesn't make any sense.

TIA

What you're describing and the price range you want is filled to bursting with decent machines.
80s and 90s lathes are many times under $10k in perfectly serviceable condition. Late 90s and 00's and you're still in the ball park.
Buyers market for this stuff.
Ebay, craigs, dealers, - I don't think you could swing a dead cat and not hit a good dozen machines that fit your requirements.
Older Okuma, Mori, Daewoo/Doosan, Takisawa, Mazak, are all great values and still supported.

I personally would go with a late 90s early 2000s daewoo puma. but that's just me

cgrim3 said:

I personally would go with a late 90s early 2000s daewoo puma. but that's just me

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Still supported for parts and service, too.

Thanks for the responses. I had done some quick searching, and figured that meeting a $30k budget wouldn't be too hard, but I also don't know what machines are good and what aren't. I will definitely look into the Pumas.

Perhaps to narrow it down a little (and the reason I'm looking at $30k instead of $10k), I would like a somewhat newer UI. The current lathe we have has a Fanuc 0T controller, which while it works fine (and Fanuc does a good job answering questions) is not the most user friendly. At this point I'm still the only one that really knows how to use the machine, and one of the major hindrances to teaching (and having people remember) how to run things is the somewhat difficult to navigate interface on the machine. So basically I'm looking for something a bit newer that would seem easier to navigate for those of us that are used to more modern electronics (if that makes any sense).

Just a tip, getting a machine with a Y axis and live tooling is a game changer, a sub spindle at minimum.

I have a 2 axis lathe close to your specs and I regret not doing a bit more shopping for some more capability, I hate having to take parts to the mill for the second op or manually setting up the next operation just to clean up the parts.

ultraguy said:

Just a tip, getting a machine with a Y axis and live tooling is a game changer, a sub spindle at minimum.

I have a 2 axis lathe close to your specs and I regret not doing a bit more shopping for some more capability, I hate having to take parts to the mill for the second op or manually setting up the next operation just to clean up the parts.

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I thought about that. At this point what we have is actually perfectly fine for what we need (the current lathe also has a sub-spindle, which I've never used). The main reason for looking for a new lathe was due to the service issues, not capability. Also, my understanding was that as soon as you add live tooling you would likely be bringing the price up above the cheaper range I was looking at.

I think something like this would fit your needs well.

DOOSAN LYNX 220LC CNC Lathe Turning Center Fanuc OI-TC Year 2008 Very Nice | eBay

Maybe not that particular machine, but something similar. Doosans are popular and well-supported. There are other machine manufacturers that put Fanuc controls on their machines that would probably be just as good. Once you find something you like, do your research or ask here.

But if you're wanting a more modern control than the 0T that you've got, I don't know that you'd be satisfied with a newer Fanuc controller. While they did update them, it's the same basic functionality as your 30 year old controller. On one hand, that's good because you'll learn it easily, but if you're hoping for something totally different, it won't be that.

So maybe look at machine builders that make their own controls like Okuma and Haas. People seem to like them more from a user-friendliness standpoint.

I think you'd be hard-presses to find a lathe with a Siemens control that wasn't some unsupported oddball.

Maybe Mori? They were putting their own skins on Mitsubishi and Fanuc controls. Here's one that meets your criteria. It's a bit of a beast.

2005 MORI SEIKI NL-2500/700 CNC TURNING CENTER LATHE MSX-850 CONTROL | eBay

I think you'll have to test-drive some controls to see what feels right to you. Any of these more modern machines will be better supported than what you've got.

wmpy said:

I think something like this would fit your needs well.

DOOSAN LYNX 220LC CNC Lathe Turning Center Fanuc OI-TC Year 2008 Very Nice | eBay

Maybe not that particular machine, but something similar. Doosans are popular and well-supported. There are other machine manufacturers that put Fanuc controls on their machines that would probably be just as good. Once you find something you like, do your research or ask here.

But if you're wanting a more modern control than the 0T that you've got, I don't know that you'd be satisfied with a newer Fanuc controller. While they did update them, it's the same basic functionality as your 30 year old controller. On one hand, that's good because you'll learn it easily, but if you're hoping for something totally different, it won't be that.

So maybe look at machine builders that make their own controls like Okuma and Haas. People seem to like them more from a user-friendliness standpoint.

I think you'd be hard-presses to find a lathe with a Siemens control that wasn't some unsupported oddball.

Maybe Mori? They were putting their own skins on Mitsubishi and Fanuc controls. Here's one that meets your criteria. It's a bit of a beast.

2005 MORI SEIKI NL-2500/700 CNC TURNING CENTER LATHE MSX-850 CONTROL | eBay

I think you'll have to test-drive some controls to see what feels right to you. Any of these more modern machines will be better supported than what you've got.

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Thanks, the Doosan Lynx line looks just about right for what I'm looking for. And watching the video attached to their ebay posting, the control does look better than the one on our current lathe. Our current one looks like MS DOS still. Honestly for me (since I have figured it out and can navigate it pretty quickly) the main thing I'd like to change is that when changing offsets you can't just add or subtract from the current offset, you have to do the math yourself and then type in the new offset. It generally isn't an issue, but it does lead to me shifting things the wrong way more often than I'd like. So just having a new system that allows something as simple as those offset changes would be nice.

noobingr said:

Thanks, the Doosan Puma line looks just about right for what I'm looking for. And watching the video attached to their ebay posting, the control does look better than the one on our current lathe. Our current one looks like MS DOS still. Honestly for me (since I have figured it out and can navigate it pretty quickly) the main thing I'd like to change is that when changing offsets you can't just add or subtract from the current offset, you have to do the math yourself and then type in the new offset. It generally isn't an issue, but it does lead to me shifting things the wrong way more often than I'd like. So just having a new system that allows something as simple as those offset changes would be nice.

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I'm not sure I follow you on the offsets. You do or don't want to be able to move the offsets incrementally? The 0T can make incremental offset adjustments. If you want to move the diameter of a tool up .001", just highlight that tool offset and type U.001, and then hit Input. If you want to go down the same amount, U-.001 Input. For moving in Z, use W instead of U.

wmpy said:

I'm not sure I follow you on the offsets. You do or don't want to be able to move the offsets incrementally? The 0T can make incremental offset adjustments. If you want to move the diameter of a tool up .001", just highlight that tool offset and type U.001, and then hit Input. If you want to go down the same amount, U-.001 Input. For moving in Z, use W instead of U.

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You know what, that makes a lot of sense (insert facepalm)... this is where some actual training could have possibly helped. Mills that I have used allow for simply entering "X+.001" and it would increase that offset 0.001". That didn't work on this lathe, and I didn't really ever think of trying to use relative coordinates.

noobingr said:

You know what, that makes a lot of sense (insert facepalm)... this is where some actual training could have possibly helped. Mills that I have used allow for simply entering "X+.001" and it would increase that offset 0.001". That didn't work on this lathe, and I didn't really ever think of trying to use relative coordinates.

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Ha. Did I just save your company having to spend $30k on a new machine? My fee is only 10%. PM me for my Paypal info.

Seriously, though...

Newer controls have an Input and a +Input button. You don't have to mess with U and W. Just type -.001, then hit +Input to make an incremental adjustment. It's not necessarily better, though. I have on multiple occasions accidentally hit the Input instead of the +Input thereby wiping out the tool offset and requiring me to touch off the tool again. It's super annoying. I haven't done it in a while, so hopefully I've learned my lesson. It probably would have been better if the two buttons weren't right next to each other.

It makes you wonder what other ways you might not be using the machine to its fullest potential...
Are you touching tools using MZ0, MX1.0 for example?
Are you using the separate wear and geometry offsets for the tools?
Are you using the work shift to set the face of your part to 0?
Are you using the parts counter?

That's just off the top of my head. I don't bring any of this up to be harsh on you. You don't always know what you don't know. Being self-taught is like that. Years later you realize you were doing something the hard way for no reason other than not knowing.

wmpy said:

Ha. Did I just save your company having to spend $30k on a new machine? My fee is only 10%. PM me for my Paypal info.

Seriously, though...

Newer controls have an Input and a +Input button. You don't have to mess with U and W. Just type -.001, then hit +Input to make an incremental adjustment. It's not necessarily better, though. I have on multiple occasions accidentally hit the Input instead of the +Input thereby wiping out the tool offset and requiring me to touch off the tool again. It's super annoying. I haven't done it in a while, so hopefully I've learned my lesson. It probably would have been better if the two buttons weren't right next to each other.

It makes you wonder what other ways you might not be using the machine to its fullest potential...
Are you touching tools using MZ0, MX1.0 for example?
Are you using the separate wear and geometry offsets for the tools?
Are you using the work shift to set the face of your part to 0?
Are you using the parts counter?

That's just off the top of my head. I don't bring any of this up to be harsh on you. You don't always know what you don't know. Being self-taught is like that. Years later you realize you were doing something the hard way for no reason other than not knowing.

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Unfortunately for the company, you likely did not save $30k , the offset thing was just a minor aspect that I hoped to improve. The primary issue is still that there is no support for this lathe, and the two times that we've needed some major maintenance the machine repair company had to escalate things to their most experienced people just to figure out what was wrong, and it also took far longer each time to fix than we would want.

Also I don't take any offense. That's why I put the disclaimer in the first post, the only reason I'm doing this at my company is largely because I was the most recent graduate from college where I had a couple intro-level classes that we used a few CNC machines, and that was the most experience of anyone except our lead maintenance guy (who is too busy working on keeping production running to spend a long time figuring out a new machine with a not entirely intuitive interface). At this point I'm the one-eyed man in the land of the blind.

For the questions themselves:
No, I'm not using MZ0, MX1.0 for touching tools off. I'll have to look into what that does.
Yes, I am using the wear offsets after getting a new part set up and dialed in on the geometry offsets.
No, I am not using work shift to set the face of the part to 0. I may also have to look into that. Currently, I set the point at the center, top of the part as the 0 (so basically the cutoff tool touches the 0,0 point when parting).
Yes, I am using the parts counter, although I never fully figured out how to count the number of cycles on a tool so I could try to determine tool life. Using macros, I got to the point that I could count the cycles on a tool while it was running one part, but whenever the "master" program finishes (not sure what exactly it's called, but I use a subprogram as the actual cutting program, the master tells the subprogram to run "X" times depending on how many parts we can get per bar) it resets these counts. But the overall parts counter retains its value when the master program ends, so it gives an accurate count of each part that is made.

If you have any reading or pointers that may help me I would gladly accept it.

Did you find a lathe? If so, what was it? From what I remember your "main" program was a single block with an 'L' word telling it how many times to run. Never used it. Not where I have a Fanuc book handy ATM.

We had an older Daewoo S200 with barfeed. Barfeed gave out and owner refused to replace or repair it because the guys running it would only load one bar at a time. So I did the math for each part at the beginning of the program. Operator had to measure each bar before loading and put that value into a variable.

Doing the same thing with an old Hardinge T42 that the barfeed no longer works on. Pull with subspindle. The Daewoo had a combination cut-off tool/barpuller.

Where are you located? If within a reasonable drive, I'd be more than happy to help you figure out the best way to run your new lathe. No charge. I like helping and teaching.

If you bought a Daewoo, I've been programming, setting them up and occasionally running them for over 20 years, I think. Am familiar with several models of Fanuc controls including the OT. Been doing it for 37 years. Love Macro B programming so I could help you out with that as well.

gcodeguy said:

Did you find a lathe? If so, what was it? From what I remember your "main" program was a single block with an 'L' word telling it how many times to run. Never used it. Not where I have a Fanuc book handy ATM.

We had an older Daewoo S200 with barfeed. Barfeed gave out and owner refused to replace or repair it because the guys running it would only load one bar at a time. So I did the math for each part at the beginning of the program. Operator had to measure each bar before loading and put that value into a variable.

Doing the same thing with an old Hardinge T42 that the barfeed no longer works on. Pull with subspindle. The Daewoo had a combination cut-off tool/barpuller.

Where are you located? If within a reasonable drive, I'd be more than happy to help you figure out the best way to run your new lathe. No charge. I like helping and teaching.

If you bought a Daewoo, I've been programming, setting them up and occasionally running them for over 20 years, I think. Am familiar with several models of Fanuc controls including the OT. Been doing it for 37 years. Love Macro B programming so I could help you out with that as well.

Click to expand...

Sorry for the late response and no follow up from the initial thread. I hadn't logged in here for quite a while. Unfortunately the owner decided that a new lathe shouldn't be part of the budget (he might be a bit cheap). Now the lathe has been down for a couple months with different servo drive, motor and cable issues. We as of yet don't actually know what the true problem is, and we've ended up outsourcing a whole lot of machining work on top of the diagnosis and repair bills. A bit ironic when if we had invested a little money up front it probably would have broken even with avoiding all the excess costs we have now. And no, I'm not salty about it at all

Thanks for the offer to help. The talk now is that we've been down long enough we may need to cut our losses and buy a new machine before investing any more into the old one. If that happens and you are within a reasonable distance of Grand Rapids, MI I'd be up for having you in.