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  1. #1
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    Default Best way to hold this part

    I have a Haas ST 30 with a 12" 3 jaw hydraulic chuck. I have a part to face, chamfer and put a snap ring groove in. The material is 1141. .375 0.D. X 5.250 long. The snap ring groove is .031 wide X .04 deep. It is .285 from the end of the part. I have about 500 or more to do. I'm looking for suggestions on the best way to hold this to do the job.

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    Collet chuck, with a depth stop? That’s how I’d do 500.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Get a collet chuck, a work stop, and an extension tube for the work stop to get it 4.5" back?
    Edit: Beat by mere moments.

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    Bore some softjaws if you don't wanna deal with a collet...

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    Some softjaws that will hang onto 3/8" diameter in a 12" chuck?
    Good luck.

    If you don't want to buy a full blown spindle mount collet chuck for $1800 or whatever, these work well: McMaster-Carr

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    Quote Originally Posted by npolanosky View Post
    Some softjaws that will hang onto 3/8" diameter in a 12" chuck?
    Good luck.

    If you don't want to buy a full blown spindle mount collet chuck for $1800 or whatever, these work well: McMaster-Carr
    What kinda run out are you getting with this ( the mc mastercarr one) I been thinking about getting one for my 10" chuck machine.

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    Sub it out to a shop with a machine more suited to smaller workpieces. A 12” chuck is way overkill. By the time it spools up to proper rpm (which your machine may not be able to reach) a smaller machine would have the part done already. Or buy a smaller machine with a collet chuck and a bar feed, then you could set it to run and just check on it periodically to load another bar. 500 parts would be done before you know it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    What kinda run out are you getting with this ( the mc mastercarr one) I been thinking about getting one for my 10" chuck machine.
    I'm interested in this too. It's a lot cheaper than a new smaller machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    What kinda run out are you getting with this ( the mc mastercarr one) I been thinking about getting one for my 10" chuck machine.
    I'm interested in this too. It's a lot cheaper than a new smaller machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npolanosky View Post
    Some softjaws that will hang onto 3/8" diameter in a 12" chuck?
    Good luck.

    If you don't want to buy a full blown spindle mount collet chuck for $1800 or whatever, these work well: McMaster-Carr
    I like this idea. I don't know how long the job will last. I want something that will work and not break the bank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spruewell View Post
    Sub it out to a shop with a machine more suited to smaller workpieces. A 12” chuck is way overkill. By the time it spools up to proper rpm (which your machine may not be able to reach) a smaller machine would have the part done already. Or buy a smaller machine with a collet chuck and a bar feed, then you could set it to run and just check on it periodically to load another bar. 500 parts would be done before you know it
    The job got subbed out to me so I hate to send it somewhere else. Plus the customer is close and will come by to pick up parts and it might look funny if they aren't here. I know the guy real good and he's going to ask questions about why I'm not doing the work. A new machine would be nice but I have to stop buying expensive machines for short run one time jobs.

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    Do you have a small vmc? Could make a fixture to clamp them vertical, run 6 or more at a time. Depends on tolerance etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    I'm interested in this too. It's a lot cheaper than a new smaller machine.
    Just bore a set of softjaws for it (3" diameter ish) and its pretty low. Haven't measured, but definitely within .001 since I cant see any runout by eye.

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    For this kind of work we have bored out jaws to accept Warner Swasey style collet pads. You stil use the machines hydraulics to close the collet and it is very precise. Here is a link to store bought version. Warner Swasey Style Collet Pads

    We just made our own. The 5C fixtures are okay but you have to close the collet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    I'm interested in this too. It's a lot cheaper than a new smaller machine.
    For that much money, make or purchase 5C jaws for the chuck. I made ours and it has repaid itself in dividends hundreds of times over, by now. Alternatively, make or purchase jaws for W&S collet pads, as well. Either style are bone simple to make.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    For that much money, make or purchase 5C jaws for the chuck. I made ours and it has repaid itself in dividends hundreds of times over, by now. Alternatively, make or purchase jaws for W&S collet pads, as well. Either style are bone simple to make.



    That is slick! Can you elaborate on how you did it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    For that much money, make or purchase 5C jaws for the chuck. I made ours and it has repaid itself in dividends hundreds of times over, by now. Alternatively, make or purchase jaws for W&S collet pads, as well. Either style are bone simple to make.



    Yes. How did you do that? That is great.

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    3/8 diameter and 5 1/4 long? No wonder someone subbed that job out

    But yes, soft jaws with collet pads is the way to go.

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    I looked at that option and found a product on the market that was basically the same thing- Just softjaws bored for 5c, and a plate that retains the collet and sets the depth. Nub Tools Master Jaw System for 5C & 16C Collets - Penn Tool Co., Inc

    They want like $800 for it, so I set about designing my own. I think I have it sorted, but honestly I just ran out of time to make the collet sleeve, bore the jaws, and hope I got it right on the first go (which I certainly wouldn't. If their product was about half the price I'd have just bought one. The Kalamazoo collet chuck (the one on mcmaster) existed, was cheap relative to my time, and was here the day after I ordered because mcmaster is magical.

    If I were going to spend any more than that and I'd just drop $1200-1800 for a proper Royal 5C chuck that mounts on the spindle face and uses the hydraulic actuator, but if I am going that far I may as well buy a QG collet chuck for the wider gripping range and super fast collet changes (like $2800 for base model), and if I am going that far I should get the dead length version (add another thousand), and then I need collets at some $250ea, and and and.....

    The Kalamazoo chuck is dead length (there's a sleeve that moves forward instead of pulling the collet back), it's easy to adjust, it gives me a couple of extra inches of projection from the front of the jaws (good for clearance when working on small parts), and it just tightens with about 1/3 of a turn on the cam lock screw. And I already ran a couple hundred parts and more than paid for it.


    So to each their own, and if someone finds a set of 5C collet jaws for less money (Or someone makes a working set and is willing to share the CAD files) let me know. Til then I can totally live with a half turn on a hex wrench for my type of work. Hmm, I wonder if I could put a hex in a live tool holder and automatically clamp and unclamp......that's a terrible idea, heh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpifer3 View Post
    That is slick! Can you elaborate on how you did it?
    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    Yes. How did you do that? That is great.
    I know that this is going to sound trite, but honestly I simply bored the inverse of a 5C collet into the jaws. I measured the stack up of the top jaws + master jaws, deducted that from the length of the collet's, and made a chip cover that had the 5C threads in it. Later, ( once I was satisfied ) I case hardened the jaws, mounted a tool post grinder in the turret, and ground the 5C jaws for accuracy. That part was not really necessary, to be honest. I posted video of right after I made them that showed them repeating within 0.0002". I simply wanted some longevity from them.


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