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Big-plus

bdrmachine

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Is there anyone out there willing to share their experiences with Cat 40 Big-Plus spindles / holders? Do they reduce chatter and improve finishes compared to Cat 40? Is it possible to interchange holders at all?
 
They are amazing. Big plus holders will fit in a non big plus spindle.

Big plus holders are also amazing.

So I have heard. I have some Big Plus holders but nothing with a Big Plus spindle. I've often though about removing the drive keys and making a ring with integrated dogs so the ring engages the spindle nose and Big Plus flange. All the specs and dimensions are available and it shouldn't be a very difficult grinding job. Am I overlooking something? Is it worth it on cat40 machines with 7.5 to 10 hp spindles?
 
With all the investment I have in Cat 40 holders if I purchase a Big-plus machine can I use my old cat 40 holders?
 
The only up side I seen with big-plus spindles was with large face mills .. I normal 1/2" endmill or even the small 2" ripper mill I never seen a advantage with ,,, but yes the big 4" face mill I did see a better cut ,, but it might have been the machine more than just the spindle taper ..

Yes you can run big-plus holders in a standard cat40 and you can also run cat40 in a big-plus spindle ..

I would not pay extra for a big-plus spindle but if I still had one I would buy big-plus holders for large face mills
 
Yes you can run big-plus holders in a standard cat40 and you can also run cat40 in a big-plus spindle ..

I believe you can't run Big Plus in a non-Big Plus spindle.
BUT
you CAN run a regular Cat holder in a Big Plus.

To the OP: They are worth it, and not really that much more than a regular cat 40 holder.
Unless you actually buy Kaiser Big Plus brand then you have to sacrifice your first born.
I would suggest to look at Mari-Tool dual contact holders. We have a bunch of them.
 
Below is a pic of two parts done in one of our Doosan DNM5700 mill. 1" cutter, .125 DOC, 600 SFPM and 40IPM in 1018 steel. Part on the left is Big Plus and on the right, standard spindle. Same cutter, same gauge length, different holders.

20181130_103424.jpg
 
I believe you can't run Big Plus in a non-Big Plus spindle.
BUT
you CAN run a regular Cat holder in a Big Plus.

To the OP: They are worth it, and not really that much more than a regular cat 40 holder.
Unless you actually buy Kaiser Big Plus brand then you have to sacrifice your first born.
I would suggest to look at Mari-Tool dual contact holders. We have a bunch of them.

I often run big plus holders in a standard spindle and there is a gap. It is my understanding that to make contact both the spindle and holder mating surfaces are moved closer to eachother….. Maybe there is a standard spindle they won't work in but they work in mine....
 

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Our last Doosan VMC came stock with a Big Plus spindle. We haven't used it yet but can confirm that all our old standard CAT40 stuff works fine in it.
 
I have 2 VMCs with standard Cat-40 spindles, and 3 with Big Plus Cat-40 spindles.

While I have been told by salesmen you can put a standard holder in a Big Plus spindle, and that makes sense(Doesn't work the other way around), I don't allow standard tooling in the Big Plus machines.

We buy Big Plus tool holders only for those machines.

Main reason is chips get on the flange with regular holders, and can stick to the face. Then a Big Plus holder gets put in the spindle behind it, and mashes the chip.

Using only big plus never allows chips to get in there. The tool magazines are isolated from the work area on the big plus spindle machines, and machining is only done with a tool in the spindle anyways. Doing things this was we haven't found a chip pinched between the flange and the spindle face yet.

Not only can it potentially damage the face of the spindle, but can make it hard to repeat tool lengths.
 
Ref the "can get chips on the tool flange" - I have never seen it or ever had it happen. I have read it here - many people have posted that it happens though.
On the Robodrills i had, we had a big issue of chips getting on the holder tapers, because the clock face toolchanger was open - and when you're routing with a knuckle cutter throwing mince meat everywhere at 200"/PM, it did get on them.
And then toolchange and trap in the spindle taper and scrap the part because tool length etc...
So, we got a tech in who prolonged the toolchange time on the Robos - The head would rise removing the holder, index to new holder, lower and then at 10mm from the end of cycle, it would pause for 1x second so the internal airblast would blow chips off the taper, then finish the toolchange.
Worked like a champ.

Yeah, I'm sure I over think some things.

All machines have air blast during toolchange, but I figure why take the chance to add any more headaches to a machine shop already produces enough as is. Any variables I can negate relatively easily I do.

On another note. I bought a new machine at one point that was supplied with pullstuds to cover the 30 tool mag, part of the package. All pullstuds supplied were coolant through, being that we didn't order coolant through on that machine, I asked for solid studs instead.

Was given the studs, but I could tell they were snickering. They thought I was being crazy, while my opinion was why weaken such a critical part. Maybe i'm over thinking it, but why take a chance?
 
Is there anyone out there willing to share their experiences with Cat 40 Big-Plus spindles / holders? Do they reduce chatter and improve finishes compared to Cat 40? Is it possible to interchange holders at all?

When I worked for Doosan I did an IMTS demo on a DNM 400 using Big-Plus tooling. I took VERY aggressive cuts in 4140 steel and surface finishes and part geometry detail were exceptional. Well worth the money.
 
I believe you can't run Big Plus in a non-Big Plus spindle.
BUT
you CAN run a regular Cat holder in a Big Plus.

To the OP: They are worth it, and not really that much more than a regular cat 40 holder.
Unless you actually buy Kaiser Big Plus brand then you have to sacrifice your first born.
I would suggest to look at Mari-Tool dual contact holders. We have a bunch of them.

You can use big plus holders in non big plus spindles and vise versa. We swap holders from the okumas to Haas with no issues at all.

And the big Kaiser holders really aren't that expensive. Maybe $50-75 more per holder.
 








 
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