josephk
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
- Location
- Hudson Valley NY
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web
Stay Connected:
BIG-PLUS Dual Contact Vs. Non-Licensed Dual Contact
- Thread starter josephk
- Start date
- Replies 111
- Views 16,130
LockNut
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
- Location
- Bergen County
Interesting. Some of this could be marketing. But the Big Plus tolerances are so tight, understandably, that it is hard to replicate. Big Daishawa does not divulge those tolerances to anybody except Big Kaiser and a few other licensed manufactures. I work for Doosan, all of our machines are Big Plus standard.
Paul
Paul
ChipSplitter
Titanium
- Joined
- May 23, 2019
- Location
- Maybe
Does Doosan void the warranty if you use stanard V-flange holders? I have heard some MTB's are notorious for that........
Well since they charge you your first born for a Big Plus holder, there are lots of companies making dual contact holders for way less. This is a propaganda video because they aren't making any money. IMO.
fmari --MariTool-
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Location
- Illinois
Hahaha,
I love it. Anyone that knows how to grind tapers or check for fit will know that is way too much prussian blue. You never apply that much. Ya I am one of those Un-Licensed manufacturers. We reached out to them in 2013 for pricing and information on getting a license. They replied they would not entertain or sell us a license. I asked for a reason, they would not give one. Very nice how they flat out will not sell you a license and then make a video telling you to watch out for unlicensed manufacturers.
I love it. Anyone that knows how to grind tapers or check for fit will know that is way too much prussian blue. You never apply that much. Ya I am one of those Un-Licensed manufacturers. We reached out to them in 2013 for pricing and information on getting a license. They replied they would not entertain or sell us a license. I asked for a reason, they would not give one. Very nice how they flat out will not sell you a license and then make a video telling you to watch out for unlicensed manufacturers.
fmari --MariTool-
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Location
- Illinois
I know the tolerances. If you are experienced in grinding those tolerances are not too tight. HSK is much tighter.
Hard to replicate? Just the opposite. Dual contact is based on a relationship of a known and measurable taper gage line to a flat shoulder. Anyone that has a little experience with geometry, trig, and datum points can figure this out and create reliable and repeatable measuring fixtures and proper CMM measuring procedures.
I thought the same thing when I watched it yesterday. They just gooped it on.
LockNut
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
- Location
- Bergen County
No, Doosan does not void the warranty if you use standard holders. But we do insist the the standard holders you do use are new or in very good condition for obvious reasons. I was doing an install/training on a 5 axis machine and I asked them what holders they were going to use. He pointed to a large crate near the machine that had about 200 old crappy holders with fretting and rust just piled on top of one another. I told the manager that we would not support the spindle warranty if he used those and trashed the spindle or complained about tool vibration. You spend 250K on a brand new 5 axis and cheap out on holders?
Paul
LockNut
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
- Location
- Bergen County
I get what you are saying and I remember you speaking about it in another thread. But you put a lot of work into what you came up with. I'm not saying it can't be done. But some MTB's will not support machines using your holders. We have so far not voided any warranties for this except for maybe very extreme cases.
Paul
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
The whole idea of "licensing" a dimension is stupid. I can't believe actual machinists would fall for that crap.
fmari --MariTool-
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Location
- Illinois
Exactly. Only new quality holders or very good condition holders should be used on a new machine.
"Tolerance" not a single dimension so much eh ?
josephk
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
- Location
- Hudson Valley NY
I'm more worried that MTB's will fall for it.
fmari --MariTool-
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Location
- Illinois
It would be a good idea to talk to the dealership while negotiating and comparing with other machine tool brands. Let them know it will be a part of your decision when determining which machine you would buy. Or buy the tool holders that you specify with the machine as a package.
josephk
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
- Location
- Hudson Valley NY
Here is the reason: part of the licencing is a minimum price for the holders, so they stay competitive..
fmari --MariTool-
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Location
- Illinois
Exactly. Looks like I was not part of the "club".
BROTHERFRANK
Stainless
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2013
- Location
- SoCal
I have been very satisfied with the performance (and value) of Maritool's Dual Contact holders. I use them when more rigidity is required such as large diameter tools (slitting saws), longer tools, PCD form tools, heavier cuts... I have noticed significant improvements in cut quality, sound and tool life etc the times I went with a standard holder first and then switched to a Dual Contact. The cuts and tool life don't lie. If the Dual Contact adapters don't improve your challenging operations, there is something wrong with them. If the dimensions aren't ground correctly, the taper will not seat properly and you will know it or the face will never make contact and there will be no improvement.
Rod Man
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2008
- Location
- Columbus, OH
I bought a new Doosan DNM 5700 last March. I decided to only run new dual contact holder and ordered some from Maritool.
Then a couple weeks later in walks a rep from Big Kaiser, He tells me he never heard of Maritool and to "be careful" because they aren't licensed and could cause problems!! So when he left I blued a half dozen or so of Franks holder and they all looked perfect.
Almost 1 year later I have had no problems with the spindle or any holders!!!
Dale
Then a couple weeks later in walks a rep from Big Kaiser, He tells me he never heard of Maritool and to "be careful" because they aren't licensed and could cause problems!! So when he left I blued a half dozen or so of Franks holder and they all looked perfect.
Almost 1 year later I have had no problems with the spindle or any holders!!!
Dale
EmGo
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
We're supposed to be machinists, double D's. If you can't hold that number to two tenths on a grinder, then get outta Dodge.
