Big time noob needs help with Fadal EMC.
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    Default Big time noob needs help with Fadal EMC.

    quick background about myself, im 31, a shop operator, using large format custom made CNC machines to create tooling for automotive car bodies. 2 weeks ago i acquired 2002Fadal EMC. Very excited to tap into this type of manufacturing as its more consistent in income. However i still have much to learn. 2 problems that ive run into are securing my vise to the table via T-slot, the anchors that came with my vise doesnt work with my table. Can anyone tell me about the differences and what i should get/do to anchor down the vise. picture attached.

    second one is loading and unloading my tool holders. I have 2 types of CAT40 tool holders, one with a 45 degree pull stud on it. the holders seem to be difference in profile, one having a longer taper. The problem is that i cannot load the tool into the spindle with either type of CAT40. heres my process- pushing and holding the "toolin/out" button to open it, trying to place the holder in while letting go of the "toolin/out" button, the spindle doesnt grab the too holder. im giving the machine about 80 psi of pressure.

    If you guys can help me out that would be great.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_20200404_153926730.jpg   img_20200404_153914581.jpg   img_20200404_153908439.jpg   img_20200404_153844044.jpg  

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    Default Big time noob needs help with Fadal EMC.

    Both of those are the wrong pullstuds. Look at a Fadal manual or the placard that is probably on the machine that says what type of pull stud to use.

    The vise you probably need some toe clamps to clamp on the slot. Fadal uses 11/16 tints I believe (also in the manual).

    I know the forum is here to answer questions but try google at first. Both your questions are very basic things.


    Edit: looked at the picture hard one of them doesnít even look like cat40 probably bt30 or something looks small

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    1st off you are probably gong to reget buying that cheapo vise but. . . . Are your keys 11/16 wide to fit the table slots? If not and they fo in the table slot, you can always push the vise to one side or the other. As far as holdowns, go buy a stud, nut and strap clamp kit, you are going to need it anyway. You can make some strap clamps for that vise from 1/2" flat bar but you will still need some t nuts. and clean that rust/spooge off the table before you start bolting stuff down. You Tube can be your friend. That left hand tool holder in your pic looks like a 30 taper tool holder. Good luck and welcome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianagos View Post
    Both of those are the wrong pullstuds. Look at a Fadal manual or the placard that is probably on the machine that says what type of pull stud to use.

    The vise you probably need some toe clamps to clamp on the slot. Fadal uses 11/16 tints I believe (also in the manual).

    I know the forum is here to answer questions but try google at first. Both your questions are very basic things.


    Edit: looked at the picture hard one of them doesn’t even look like cat40 probably bt30 or something looks small
    The machine didnt come with a manual. Ive looked at the fadal manuals that are available online but cant find the specific information on what type of retention knob to use. yup you're right the one on the left is a bt30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan from Oakland View Post
    1st off you are probably gong to reget buying that cheapo vise but. . . . Are your keys 11/16 wide to fit the table slots? If not and they fo in the table slot, you can always push the vise to one side or the other. As far as holdowns, go buy a stud, nut and strap clamp kit, you are going to need it anyway. You can make some strap clamps for that vise from 1/2" flat bar but you will still need some t nuts. and clean that rust/spooge off the table before you start bolting stuff down. You Tube can be your friend. That left hand tool holder in your pic looks like a 30 taper tool holder. Good luck and welcome!
    the vise might be good for small parts? ohwell ill learn through experience. I still dont know what keys to use, attached is a diagram of the tslot on my table maybe you can tell me what type. Again i cant find any information on the internet including fadal online manuals. most of it are parts diagrams, and operation procedures.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tslot-dimensions.jpg  

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    Thanks for everyones help so far. I havent been able to find information on specifically what type of retention knob that i need from the online manuals and google searches. Should these work for me? https://www.fadalcnc.com/index.php/retentionknobs.html

    Also for the Tslots, attached are the dimensions of the slots on my table. Im not sure which dimension is related to the key size.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tslot-dimensions.jpg  

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    1. Order a Kurt 6" vise. Not the best, but not the worst, and tons of shops have them so you can get lots of advise and tooling relative to what you have on there now. The Kurt website usually has scratch-n-dent specials that can save you some $, and free shipping.
    2. Make your own T-nuts. It's easy, and you can make them to fit exactly your machine's slots. In the meantime, McMaster-Carr has loads of T-nuts ( McMaster-Carr ) just get a couple that will fit in your slots as temps, then order a bar of 17-4 ( McMaster-Carr ) and make nice ones.
    3. Talk to Frank at Maritool.com and pick up a starter tooling package. Then you can expand from there. But Frank's stuff is very good. I have way too many Maritool toolholders . But better to have too many than not enough.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Oh, and throw away those slot keys. They are more trouble than they're worth. You're going to have to tram your vise accurately anyway.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    1. Order a Kurt 6" vise. Not the best, but not the worst, and tons of shops have them so you can get lots of advise and tooling relative to what you have on there now. The Kurt website usually has scratch-n-dent specials that can save you some $, and free shipping.
    2. Make your own T-nuts. It's easy, and you can make them to fit exactly your machine's slots. In the meantime, McMaster-Carr has loads of T-nuts ( McMaster-Carr ) just get a couple that will fit in your slots as temps, then order a bar of 17-4 ( McMaster-Carr ) and make nice ones.
    3. Talk to Frank at Maritool.com and pick up a starter tooling package. Then you can expand from there. But Frank's stuff is very good. I have way too many Maritool toolholders . But better to have too many than not enough.

    Regards.

    Mike
    I did want to purchase a used kurt, a bit out of my range. Ill eventually get one when i start making money.

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    i believe these retention knobs will work for me, does it look right? Shars 5pcs Pull Stud Retention Knob Fits Mazak Fadal CAT40 CNC NEW 37.11% Off | eBay.


    and then for the t slot clamps, i bought this set, i think the 5/8" set would be too big to fit my t slots based on my measurements, so im buying the 1/2"
    58 Pc Pro-Series 1/2 T-Slot Clamping Kit Mill Machinist Set 3/8-16 609728674359 | eBay


    thank you to everyones help so far, lots of little bits to learn and figure out. Hell, before today, i didnt even know there was a bt40 holder and just thought there was only a cat40.

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    Wow the fact that you didnít find that info in the manual to me means that you didnít even try. You arenít going to get anywhere being lazy in this hobby.



    Shars 5pcs Pull Stud Retention Knob Fits Mazak Fadal CAT40 CNC NEW 37.11% Off | eBay

    These pullstuds are good. Maritool ones are overpriced and people have had them shatter. To me they are no better than Chinese to me if that happens.

    But maritool holders are great. If you can afford them then I recommend them. Otherwise try shars Taiwan made holders. Iíve actually had pretty good luck but honestly they are pretty expensive still. I also have some technics they are cheaper and pretty good too. For er16 and er32 on the cheap I recommend these.

    5PC CAT40 ER16 PRECISION COLLET CHUCK 20000 RPM TRUE BALANCE ACURATE NEW | eBay



    Here is a link for some t nuts they can usually be found cheaper on eBay but for a few these ainít bad.

    McMaster-Carr


    Looked through the manual in under 2 min on my phone...


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    Quote Originally Posted by InspireCNC View Post
    i believe these retention knobs will work for me, does it look right? Shars 5pcs Pull Stud Retention Knob Fits Mazak Fadal CAT40 CNC NEW 37.11% Off | eBay.


    and then for the t slot clamps, i bought this set, i think the 5/8" set would be too big to fit my t slots based on my measurements, so im buying the 1/2"
    58 Pc Pro-Series 1/2 T-Slot Clamping Kit Mill Machinist Set 3/8-16 609728674359 | eBay


    thank you to everyones help so far, lots of little bits to learn and figure out. Hell, before today, i didnt even know there was a bt40 holder and just thought there was only a cat40.
    I would say if you want one of those kits buy the 5/8 and mill the nuts down or replace them. The 1/2 set will have small studs(3/8-16 vs 1/2-23)

    See my post above for the rest

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    If you are struggling with mounting the vise, I would highly suggest you do a ton of reading and YouTube video watching before you ever mash the green button, work and fixture offsets are easy once you figure them out, but are a bit hard to visualize in the beginning.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripperj View Post
    If you are struggling with mounting the vise, I would highly suggest you do a ton of reading and YouTube video watching before you ever mash the green button, work and fixture offsets are easy once you figure them out, but are a bit hard to visualize in the beginning.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Agreed
    no offence to the OP but this is a train wreck waiting to happen and he hasnt even got into the program parts yet. Fadal docs and manuals is stupid easy to find online if you LOOK which doesnt seem like you did.

    OP
    either find close to you someone who knows what they are doing to help you even offer to pay someone or cut the power off before you wreck your machine or get hurt.

    1/2-13 studs or bolts are best for the fadal as they are what works perfectly in the t-slot, mc master carr sells t nuts. a clamp kit is good to have for your vise.
    Fadal pull studs are about he strongest pull studs out there so breaking one is super rare. that being said get quality brands as they will last longer.
    your fadal either takes CAT 40 or BT40 tool holders. you need to 1st figure that one out before you buy any of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    Agreed
    no offence to the OP but this is a train wreck waiting to happen and he hasnt even got into the program parts yet. Fadal docs and manuals is stupid easy to find online if you LOOK which doesnt seem like you did.

    OP
    either find close to you someone who knows what they are doing to help you even offer to pay someone or cut the power off before you wreck your machine or get hurt.

    1/2-13 studs or bolts are best for the fadal as they are what works perfectly in the t-slot, mc master carr sells t nuts. a clamp kit is good to have for your vise.
    Fadal pull studs are about he strongest pull studs out there so breaking one is super rare. that being said get quality brands as they will last longer.
    your fadal either takes CAT 40 or BT40 tool holders. you need to 1st figure that one out before you buy any of them.
    Pay someone to teach me? No thanks. cnc machining is simple stuff. Figuring out specific hardware to use and learning the machines programing just takes time to figure out.

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    Run while there is still time
    Don


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    "Pay someone to teach me? No thanks. cnc machining is simple stuff. Figuring out specific hardware to use and learning the machines programing just takes time to figure out."

    I agree with what you are saying and I support the effort %100, however, I disagree with the notion and mindset that you are portraying right out of the gate. Mounting the vise, and selecting the right type of tool holder is very basic machine shop practice. I am not trying to imply you don't know what you are doing but just on the small hint of information you have shown/demonstrated here you are not showing yourself in a good light. Manufacturing leaves a LOT to learn for the individual, the amount of required information to get started in machine shop practice is incredible, and is even more more demanding to learn in CNC manufacturing. The little nuances between the two are the things are what will cost the most money when you break/crash/smash your tools and equipment. Luckily FADALs are easy to repair, cost effective machines, they do not compare well to the most modern machines out there but that isn't fair no matter what industry you are in. Regardless of that, having a basic understanding of the mechanics of the machine is a huge plus in understanding it's operation, having a solid understanding of the simple things such as what cutters to use and when to use them or what speed or feed rates are applicable for specific materials makes or breaks a machine, knowing what tool holder to use or what direction a cut should be made in to be beneficial is more important than the information you possess from coming from your previous machine. You should be more open to the idea of taking a basic community college course in CNC setup if available, or at least befriending someone who has experience in the trade and is willing to put out a good amount of time to teach you. The good thing about the internet for aspiring machinists is how much information is available in YouTube videos, and articles. The bad thing about these articles and videos are how much information is not portrayed or is skipped over in the allotted timeframe, most videos make things look easier than they really are and most articles skip over the most basic concepts and ideas. Don't be the guy that is to proud to seek out local help, you wind up getting a bad reputation and then no one will deal with you. Don't put all the money out there for the machines, and tooling only to fail due to pride. Just my opinion, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InspireCNC View Post
    Pay someone to teach me? No thanks. cnc machining is simple stuff. Figuring out specific hardware to use and learning the machines programing just takes time to figure out.
    And now Iím just pissed off I helped you. You must be a freaking genius since this is all simple stuff. Yet you couldnít figure out touts to hold a vice down ha.

    All I have to say is good luck you wonít be getting anywhere. Just let me known once you crash the machine beyond use Iíll buy it off you so I can salvage the rest.

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    Iíd like to see the men where he comes from.
    This is probably the most complicated job to do properly. I canít think of anything that takes more knowledge
    Don


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    Quote Originally Posted by InspireCNC View Post
    Pay someone to teach me? No thanks. cnc machining is simple stuff. Figuring out specific hardware to use and learning the machines programing just takes time to figure out.
    You're right. Nailing down which pull studs and tee nuts to buy is definitely the hardest part of this gig.

    CNC is so easy, hard to believe some of these suckers even have measuring equipment since the machine is always perfect

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