digitaluddite
Plastic
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
- Location
- Portland, OR
Thinking of switching to Blaser Synergy 735? Here is my experience in case it helps you decide.
5/14/2019 - Added 5 gallons Blasorun to Haas VF1 & Mazak Integrex i100s to help clean out the Blasocut 35 SW that we have been using for a few years.
5/20/2019 - Emptied Haas of Blasocut BC35-SW, cleaned, filled with diluted 735 & flushed lines (even replaced 2 main lines) and then filled with 6% 735
6/3/2019 - First noticed what I thought was yellow staining on the vises in the Haas. From this point forward, the Mazak (strangely) never had any issues. All of the issues were in the Haas.
View attachment 265016
6/4/2019 - I called and sent pictures to my Blaser rep
6/5/2019 - 3 reps from Blaser / local distributer visit. Suggest coating trouble spots with “Tool & Die Saver” and increasing to 8%. We do so.
6/10/2019 - After only 5 days of machining and even though it was sprayed with Tool & Die Saver, we find undeniable, extensive corrosion.
View attachment 265017
6/11/20109 - “Unacceptable rust” email sent to Blaser rep w/ pictures. I stated "You mentioned when you were here that the formulation for 735 has changed to be more rust preventative. We would like you to provide either an additive to make our 50 gallon drum more rust preventative or we would like the drum replaced with an new drum with the new formula that is more rust preventative.”
6/14/2019 - After a phone call with Blaser rep, I decide to dump the coolant in the Haas, clean again, flush again and fill with 8% 735. This wasn't a Blaser recommendation, it was my own decision to try and rule out any residual BC35 SW causing problems. Sump & machine were spotless both times.
6/17/2019 - Blaser rep (finally) takes sample of old coolant & DI water.
6/27/2019 - Lab results back from Blaser. No explanation. Nothing outside of their predetermined ranges. No suggestions.
7/2/2019 - Additional rust pictures sent. Rust spots on exposed bed. Some rust found on O1 tool steel parts that came out of machine and sat in tray. No rinsing or cleaning of any sort.
IMG_4593.jpegIMG_4315.jpeg
7/7/2019 - In desperation, we bolt a stack of zinc plates to the bed of the machine, hoping that it will act as an anode and help prevent rust.
7/9/2019 - 3 Blaser reps visit again but have no suggestions other than to check grounding and increase to 10%. We increase to 10% immediately. Later, after Googling around, I find the PDF that you will be giving a talk on "Synthetic coolants and corrosion – physics or chemistry?” The .pdf, in my opinion, confirms my belief that they are well aware that they have a corrosion issue. I reach out via LinkedIn to the person mentioned in the .pdf since that is the only way I could find them. You can find the .pdf here: https://mup.vdma.org/documents/1059...9_en.pdf/cc4ed95b-7d21-2440-4fb7-4b75c75cfcfd
7/10/2019 - Find that parts machined overnight rusted in the machine. These parts had nothing else done to them other than get cut in one vise and transferred to a second vise, machined and then sat overnight. Rust formed in under hanging features of the part.
7/11/2019 - Notice that some toolholders have black staining where the fingers of the carousel hold them.
View attachment 265018
7/12/2019 - Electrician tests ground. He says the ground is fine. If Blaser had actually told me what specifics to test for, I could have had more refined tests done. Never got any further explanation from Blaser about how the ground could be at fault.
7/26/2019 - Still experiencing excessing yellow staining. Rust seems to be less each time we tear down the vises - about every few days now. However, with BC35, we could go months without tearing down. BC35 never stained. I’d rather not waste all this labor trying to control rust.
I asked "I know the formulation has changed. It was either to prevent rust or yellow staining/buildup. I would like explanation of what was changed." but did not get a response to that question.
8/5/2019 We finally gave up and switched back to BC35 SW.
If Blaser is aware of this issue, why did we have to deal with it for two months without resolution? Blaser never had any specific tests that can be done. Blaser did not have additives for the issue.
So, how was the Synergy 735? Well, we stuck with it for so long because, other than the very serious and inexcusable corrosion issue, we really liked the coolant. They tend to emphasize the clear / visibility benefits, but 99% of the time, no one looks at their machine running. What mattered to us was that after an 8 hour shift of loading and unloading parts, the operator does not feel like they are coated in a fine layer of oil like most coolant do. The 735 feels cleaner. Does it perform better? I have no idea, we don't have performance concerns with any coolant. To us, a coolant should #1 DO NO HARM (to machines or operators) #2 Be easy to maintain #3 Wash the chips away and lubricate the tool.
Blaser knows they have a corrosion issue. I follow quite a few Instagram machininsts that have had similar problems. Blaser either does not know what is causing the problem or my 2 machine shop is just too small to give a shit. I stuck with Blaser because in the past I've had problems with Hangsterfers and Oemeta. This BC35 SW works and I don't have to think about it. So there you go, one shop's experience. If you do decide to go with Synergy 735, just make sure you have a "properly grounded" machine, that you coat everything in Tool & Die Saver and you disassemble and clean all fixturing twice a week and you should be good to go.
5/14/2019 - Added 5 gallons Blasorun to Haas VF1 & Mazak Integrex i100s to help clean out the Blasocut 35 SW that we have been using for a few years.
5/20/2019 - Emptied Haas of Blasocut BC35-SW, cleaned, filled with diluted 735 & flushed lines (even replaced 2 main lines) and then filled with 6% 735
6/3/2019 - First noticed what I thought was yellow staining on the vises in the Haas. From this point forward, the Mazak (strangely) never had any issues. All of the issues were in the Haas.
View attachment 265016
6/4/2019 - I called and sent pictures to my Blaser rep
6/5/2019 - 3 reps from Blaser / local distributer visit. Suggest coating trouble spots with “Tool & Die Saver” and increasing to 8%. We do so.
6/10/2019 - After only 5 days of machining and even though it was sprayed with Tool & Die Saver, we find undeniable, extensive corrosion.
View attachment 265017
6/11/20109 - “Unacceptable rust” email sent to Blaser rep w/ pictures. I stated "You mentioned when you were here that the formulation for 735 has changed to be more rust preventative. We would like you to provide either an additive to make our 50 gallon drum more rust preventative or we would like the drum replaced with an new drum with the new formula that is more rust preventative.”
6/14/2019 - After a phone call with Blaser rep, I decide to dump the coolant in the Haas, clean again, flush again and fill with 8% 735. This wasn't a Blaser recommendation, it was my own decision to try and rule out any residual BC35 SW causing problems. Sump & machine were spotless both times.
6/17/2019 - Blaser rep (finally) takes sample of old coolant & DI water.
6/27/2019 - Lab results back from Blaser. No explanation. Nothing outside of their predetermined ranges. No suggestions.
7/2/2019 - Additional rust pictures sent. Rust spots on exposed bed. Some rust found on O1 tool steel parts that came out of machine and sat in tray. No rinsing or cleaning of any sort.
IMG_4593.jpegIMG_4315.jpeg
7/7/2019 - In desperation, we bolt a stack of zinc plates to the bed of the machine, hoping that it will act as an anode and help prevent rust.
7/9/2019 - 3 Blaser reps visit again but have no suggestions other than to check grounding and increase to 10%. We increase to 10% immediately. Later, after Googling around, I find the PDF that you will be giving a talk on "Synthetic coolants and corrosion – physics or chemistry?” The .pdf, in my opinion, confirms my belief that they are well aware that they have a corrosion issue. I reach out via LinkedIn to the person mentioned in the .pdf since that is the only way I could find them. You can find the .pdf here: https://mup.vdma.org/documents/1059...9_en.pdf/cc4ed95b-7d21-2440-4fb7-4b75c75cfcfd
7/10/2019 - Find that parts machined overnight rusted in the machine. These parts had nothing else done to them other than get cut in one vise and transferred to a second vise, machined and then sat overnight. Rust formed in under hanging features of the part.
7/11/2019 - Notice that some toolholders have black staining where the fingers of the carousel hold them.
View attachment 265018
7/12/2019 - Electrician tests ground. He says the ground is fine. If Blaser had actually told me what specifics to test for, I could have had more refined tests done. Never got any further explanation from Blaser about how the ground could be at fault.
7/26/2019 - Still experiencing excessing yellow staining. Rust seems to be less each time we tear down the vises - about every few days now. However, with BC35, we could go months without tearing down. BC35 never stained. I’d rather not waste all this labor trying to control rust.
I asked "I know the formulation has changed. It was either to prevent rust or yellow staining/buildup. I would like explanation of what was changed." but did not get a response to that question.
8/5/2019 We finally gave up and switched back to BC35 SW.
If Blaser is aware of this issue, why did we have to deal with it for two months without resolution? Blaser never had any specific tests that can be done. Blaser did not have additives for the issue.
So, how was the Synergy 735? Well, we stuck with it for so long because, other than the very serious and inexcusable corrosion issue, we really liked the coolant. They tend to emphasize the clear / visibility benefits, but 99% of the time, no one looks at their machine running. What mattered to us was that after an 8 hour shift of loading and unloading parts, the operator does not feel like they are coated in a fine layer of oil like most coolant do. The 735 feels cleaner. Does it perform better? I have no idea, we don't have performance concerns with any coolant. To us, a coolant should #1 DO NO HARM (to machines or operators) #2 Be easy to maintain #3 Wash the chips away and lubricate the tool.
Blaser knows they have a corrosion issue. I follow quite a few Instagram machininsts that have had similar problems. Blaser either does not know what is causing the problem or my 2 machine shop is just too small to give a shit. I stuck with Blaser because in the past I've had problems with Hangsterfers and Oemeta. This BC35 SW works and I don't have to think about it. So there you go, one shop's experience. If you do decide to go with Synergy 735, just make sure you have a "properly grounded" machine, that you coat everything in Tool & Die Saver and you disassemble and clean all fixturing twice a week and you should be good to go.