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Brother - 6 Month Report

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
I have had my Brother S1000 now for just over 6 months. It was installed in October of last year and I thought I would follow up on my experiences so far with the machine. I just looked while the machine is running and it has 168 hours of operation time. Barely broken in! (12hrs of that was spindle break in program!)

Experiences with the machine:
So far I have loved the machine. It is FAR more machine than I need right now for my business, but I bought it with the intention of growth and plan on using the machine to leverage that growth. The monthly payment is terrifying (I have never had debt for my business as a rule) and I have had a few sleepless nights because of it, but the machine has always cranked out the work I give it with gusto.

The whole experience has been a steep learning curve, this was MY first new machine purchase. I have been involved in several new machine purchases, but only from the shop machinist side. This experience was a real surprise for me, mostly it pointed out my ignorance on many levels! Two previous new machines I experienced came in from the manufacturer, were wired, leveled, and were ready to run. The Brother came in as a blank slate, the options were added and installed, and since I have been tweaking the machine in with changing (or wanting to) change different parameters and small features. Since I have learned, the previous company I worked at, all of those little details were part of the PO. Parameters and features were all set from the factory, the machine was setup and run, tested and proven on the factory floor before shipping. Guess you can do that when your a multi billion dollar company :rolleyes5:

As everyone knows these machines are lightning fast. I still cringe when I start a program from yesterday and press go for the first time at rapid of 5. Now that I have become accustomed to the machine.... 3 is boringly slow. Tool life has been pretty fantastic, but on the flip side about 90% of my endmills in the cabinet are now useless because they simply won't hold up to the feeds and speeds that I want to run. It is also now MUCH MORE evident the quality of a tool. In my old CNC, you could throw about anything in it and get a repeatable part. Surface finish sucked all around, so it did not really matter if it was a meltin or a CGS. I ran a small job a month or so ago that the CGS endmill I was using would give a beautiful surface finish, for about 4-5 parts, sometimes a brand new endmill wouldn't cut for crap. Once the surface finish started to go south I would replace the endmill, the cutting edges were still sharp as a new tool to touch.

This has also been a steep learning curve for speeds and feeds. I thought I was pretty good and now I feel like a complete amateur again. I am lost wandering around experimenting, trying this and that, grasping at straws trying to dial in certain tools. I use HSM Advisor on many of my setups but at times am shocked and bewildered at the feeds and speeds given at times. Both ways, sometimes it seems WAY too slow, sometimes WAY too fast. Sometimes I ignore the advisor, sometimes I ignore the manufacturers recommendation, typically I use whichever is faster :D

One aspect I would like to report on which isn't a complaint, but really more of a "here is my experience" is the relative accuracy of the machine. I do not want anyone to get hot and bothered about this, it is just my observation. For a job shop, if your doing one piece work, with high accuracy, it can be challenging to get good results. Part of what I have been dialing in is the accuracy between pieces. I often find that between jobs the offsets vary to try and get a good part. So for example, for the first job tool 7 has a length offset of -.0007" to get the part to correct dimension, the next job it might be -.0035, and the next it might be -.0002. Same goes for diameter offsets. What I have been struggling with, and trying to determine cause, because it really throws me for a loop, is the differences are repeatable and CONSTANT. For that first job that I had -.0007" offset, if I run 10 or 100 of those parts, ignoring tool wear, the offset will stay the same. If I remeasure a new tool, that offset will stay the same and be consistent. If I run the machine for 10 hours, and the shop is 85 degrees and come in the next morning shop is 65 and press go, part is perfect, no variance.

So for most of my products, I knock out two or three pieces quick to adjust offsets, tossing the $1 or $3 worth of scrap in the bin is no big deal. But when I have a customers $500 piece of A11 in the vise, it is a different story. When the tolerances are a tight, it can be a bit nerve racking. Holes always seem to be on size once adjusted, location can be a bit of an issue if the tolerances are tight.

When I got the machine, I had been told to get the BrotherComm software. This is absolutely an amazing, and simple, piece of software. I have days where I run 10 to 15 different setups and parts, and post out the programs, sometimes with changes, can be upwards of 30 times a day. This software should be industry standard! Literally drag and drop, BOOM the program is on the control.

A few recommendations I would give to Brother, as a small shop, Job Shop, type:

Applications/machine setup training time. Typically with your Brother you get two days of training. I got basically one day, the office I use was horribly short staffed because most of their techs were out doing installs, several in other regions of the country. The applications engineer that is the head of the service department actually came down, as a favor, to do my training and get me up and running. What I really would like from Brother to offer, is some classes or training time on the finer points of the machine. How to better utilize the technology the machine has to offer. I feel like right now I am in the second grade using the machine. I know there is a ton of capability there, I don't know how to use or implement it. I would love to be using tool break detect, in process probing, better using the Accuracy modes, which I have come to find out DO affect part geometry even at lower feeds and speeds. While many would say, that is YOUR job, and I do not disagree, at a big shop we had people that did all these aspects as a part of their job. For me, I have to find the time to fit LEARNING about this stuff, before I can implement. With my old machine, that wasn't much of a problem. I had TONS of time while the machine was running to learn about something and implement it. With the Brother, it is SO fast, I rarely have time to accomplish much. This forum has been CRITICAL to learning and developing. So while I will probably beat up my office for another day of training, it would be GREAT if Brother offered a 1 day, 2 day, 3 day class for owners to learn about various topics.

Another improvement that I would like to see on the Brother is tool cleanliness. As noted above, I only have 168 hours of operation and yet, my tooling already has noticeable marking from debris being clamped in the spindle with the tool. I would really like to see the spindle blow the tool off as it comes OUT of the spindle to remove coolant as well as before it goes IN the spindle.

For someone that does a LOT of setups compared to run time, the Renishaw probing is lacking. The programs provided are nice, I wound up re-writing different programs for various common functions I use on a regular bases, but keying through the program to rapidly setup a piece is time consuming. The interface that Mazaks, Doosan's, and others have, are a lot quicker, even though I know they run off essentially the same program.

My only real complaint that I REALLY REALLY do not like about my Brother is the table. I have no idea what they make these tables out of, but it is more like aluminum than steel. I have scratched and dented this table more than any machine I own. I can take a shop towel and wipe chips off of it and put scratches into the surface. Dropping a SMALL part from vise height will put in a ding that needs stoned out. Tightening a tailstock or fixture down will disrupt material at the clamping point. I am considering putting in a subplate just to protect the accuracy of the table. At least I can swap the subplate out!

A few other operational comments.

Blaser Blows.... do I need to say anything else?
I went with Blaser because that is what my local Yamazen office uses, and after finding out that Semi-Synthetic and Synthetic coolants "void" the warranty, I really did not have any other options in mind. When I first started running the Blaser I was pretty happy with it. I have run machines dry my whole life but was looking to forward to having coolant for the first time at my shop. I was pretty happy with it until the first time I tore down my brand new Orange vise and found it rusted and pitted. And then I took my stop off the table and found a darkened and discolored mark where my stop was. Then I found my Kurt rusted. When my sales person came out and took pictures and samples, the response was, they have never seen anything like it before. :rolleyes5: They wound up sending me a different grade of coolant that is supposed to be better, and for the $300 a 5gal bucket it had better be gold!

When I first bought the Brother, during install the tech found an alarming issue. When my air compressor fired up, it dropped the voltage to where the Brother would alarm out. I bought what was convenient and available. A two stage Kobalt, "US MADE" air compressor. I was really happy with it when I got it, quiet, really dry, it worked well. 6 months later, it had gotten so loud I had moved it out to the garage. The oil in the head was BLACK with silver flakes. LOTS of silver flakes. Oil was dripping out from the head from the rear shaft seal. I was just waiting for it to grenade (I was kinda wishing it did). I thought what the hell, and called up the Kobalt warranty hotline. Fully expecting a line of BS. They said NO PROBLEM, call this company and they will take care of it. The service guy drove 45 minutes to my shop and installed a BRAND NEW pump head. He recommended not having the air compressor in the cold, and more frequent oil changes. I had to laugh, the paper work I got with it said to change the oil yearly. He asked how often I ran it... probably average 20hrs a week. He said, ok, change your oil every 3 months. 3 MONTHS! So if I actually USE the air compressor I need to change it every 3 months! He just laughed and said that these compressors were meant to air up tires once a month, pump up a bike tire, or basketball.

I want to wrap this up by saying that I absolutely LOVE my Brother. I have had ZERO issues with the new Brother, something that cannot be said for the Dodge 2500 I purchased last July :mad5: I am excited to push MYSELF to the limit, as I am really holding the machine back. It has absolutely been kicking my butt, staying ahead of me programing, sourcing, quoting work, supplying material and tooling, the thing is an animal. With any luck, at the end of this month I will secure my FIRST contract for supplying a customer with a part long term. I couldn't have done it (and made money) without the Brother. I still walk into the shop and smile when I start it up, and I do not think I will EVER get over the look on someone's face the first time they see it run at FULL speed. :eek:
 
Couple thoughts ...

I agree that toolholder tapers get "smudgy" pretty quickly even though I have all the air regulators in the green. I guess the tool change is so fast, the air blow doesn't have time to be very effective? I do notice that there are chips EVERYWHERE in the enclosure, so it is no wonder that tools in the carousel can pick up a bit or two. Not sure what the remedy is for this. Every now and then I Scotchbrite all the toolholder tapers along with a thorough cleaning of the spindle taper, but pretty soon they are spotty again.

I have not seen the variances in tool height that you are describing, other than if I am running all day at 16k on a warm day, the spindle will creep down as everything heats up, but it is slow enough to stay on top of.

I have seen some variances in diameters, and I wonder if this is a consequence of toolholder and spindle tapers getting spotty and not allowing the tools to seat perfectly. For really tight things, I save that op for last, clean the spindle taper real good, get the tool dialed in, and run all of the parts on that last op with no tool changes. Now that I have a high-zoot boring head with .002mm graduations, I can really see the impact of the toolholder not seating in the spindle perfectly.

Blaser BC935SW has been fantastic for me. No stink, no growth, no rust or discoloration at all (I haven't unbolted my 2 vises in 2.5 years, maybe it's a nightmare under there :skep:. The only weird thing I've seen is when running a vacuum fixture, I get some sort of smutty black deposit on the fixture surface. Something specific to vacuum, as I have not seen this under any other conditions.

Regards.

Mike
 
I’ve dealt with a few points you’ve mentioned and wish I had a ‘dummies guide to speedios’.

- I have noticed the tool length change from cold to warm, definitely. If the machine is cold and I do a few parts they tend to be consistent, but if I’m doing a lot of parts it needs to warm up a pinch before it hits its warm consistency, however once it’s warm it tends to stay very accurate.

- my setup was outstanding. Oscar from the West office was great, spent a few days with me and was back a week or two later. It’s nice being in Portland next to all the knife makers, gkoenig and other Speedio users where there’s always Yamazen techs here.

- opposite issue as you with voltage. I have 245V single phase coming in. One buck transformer got me to around 218V and during tool changes my voltage would go too high and alarm out. I had to run two buck transformers and get down to 195V incoming and now no more issues.

- the High accuracy modes didn’t make any friggin sense to me after the version 8 allowed the use of all 3 methods of applying them (direct M code, M code with L setting, and background machine parameter setting). Gkoenig ended up chatting with me answering my questions until 2am when something finally clicked and all was made right in the world, and now it makes total sense. Maybe I’ll put some info together from a layman’s point of view to explain what Greg shared with me. The HA modes are really easy to use once understood, and Greg has openly shared his well developed settings. The machines also come with very similar settings now.

- I find that skim passed when finishing have given me great accuracy

- these machines are friggin fast. But now I’m used to it and Rapids at 5 feels slow now haha. Why can’t I turn it to 11!

- I have repeatedly heard the ‘coolant voids warranty’ thing and have also repeatedly heard that is not true. Maybe full synthetics? Dunno, but if semi-synthetics void the warranty then nobody would have a warranty. I run Qualichem 250c and I also had discoloration under my orange vises from little use, even having applied LPS#2 before install. I have seen a Speedio user use CRC Dry Moly to coat the table before putting the cake down and that is working well for him.

- I like the idea of the air assisted coolant tool wash on the dual contact machines. As I’m switching jobs now I am cleaning the tapers of all the tools that weren’t used in the previous job.
 
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@ Fal Grunt. No direct experience with Brother. But that has to be one of the best reviews I've ever read here.

Extremely literate, no "fan boy". Just bread & butter facts.

Well done Sir.

Regards Phil.
 
- the High accuracy modes didn’t make any friggin sense to me after the version 8 allowed the use of all 3 methods of applying them (direct M code, M code with L setting, and background machine parameter setting). Gkoenig ended up chatting with me answering my questions until 2am when something finally clicked and all was made right in the world, and now it makes total sense. Maybe I’ll put some info together from a layman’s point of view to explain what Greg shared with me. The HA modes are really easy to use once understood, and Greg has openly shared his well developed settings. The machines also come with very similar settings now.

We have a couple of R650x1s here and our M28x codes are zeroed out. Anyone want to share their HA settings? I've had a couple of issues having too much deceleration with HA codes on and too much corner rounding with the codes off or with M265. These are all 2D cutout on injection molded plastic lids feeding fast 120-150 IPM(1/16 diameter or 1/8 endmills) with 90 degree corners (full tool radius). Resulting in cycle times slower....than our Haas DT1. GASP!
 
We have a couple of R650x1s here and our M28x codes are zeroed out. Anyone want to share their HA settings? I've had a couple of issues having too much deceleration with HA codes on and too much corner rounding with the codes off or with M265. These are all 2D cutout on injection molded plastic lids feeding fast 120-150 IPM(1/16 diameter or 1/8 endmills) with 90 degree corners (full tool radius). Resulting in cycle times slower....than our Haas DT1. GASP!

M285:

Corner deceleration override: 350
Arc deceleration override: 350
Curve approximation deceleration override: 500

I only use it for resting and finishing. Not sure what changes versus M265.
 
I have had my Brother S1000 now for just over 6 months. It was installed in October of last year and I thought I would follow up on my experiences so far with the machine. I just looked while the machine is running and it has 168 hours of operation time. Barely broken in! (12hrs of that was spindle break in program!)

My only real complaint that I REALLY REALLY do not like about my Brother is the table. I have no idea what they make these tables out of, but it is more like aluminum than steel. I have scratched and dented this table more than any machine I own. I can take a shop towel and wipe chips off of it and put scratches into the surface. Dropping a SMALL part from vise height will put in a ding that needs stoned out. Tightening a tailstock or fixture down will disrupt material at the clamping point. I am considering putting in a subplate just to protect the accuracy of the table. At least I can swap the subplate out!

I enjoyed the review also, thanks! :)

Some thoughts… To me a chip brush is better than a rag (really). I don’t like air but in your case I’d prolly do it (machine throws chip missiles everywhere anyway). I’ve carried small squares of thin plywood around so long I can’t remember when I started. Parts, tools etc. are placed there ‘till parts mounted & tools removed. A crappy table is akin to having gravel on a surface plate.

I don’t know what to think about the table (magnetic?). If T nuts are upsetting material under the table I’d make good (longer) ones (that I KNOW have square to clamp surface threads). Similar for the nuts (they’re not all square) I’ll use spherical washer pairs a lot. Last is the clamping, take the time at first to make it look right (becomes second nature) and for 1/2” studs I’ll give a pull about 6” back on the wrench (about 25-30ft-lbs). If I need more clamping I get more clamps or use stop blocks to nest on the table.

Good luck,
Matt
 
M285:

Corner deceleration override: 350
Arc deceleration override: 350
Curve approximation deceleration override: 500

I only use it for resting and finishing. Not sure what changes versus M265.

That’s the thing with the new versions; you don’t need to know those M codes anymore.
Mode A was M26x codes. Mode B was M28x codes.

Now with the newer firmwares we can use M298 L1-5. L2 is roughing, L5 is finishing, 3&4 are between them. L1 I think is Standard. M299 or M30 cancels an M298 call. You can also choose which one of those settings you want to run in the background under Machine Parameters. I leave mine on Standard but depending on what you do maybe you want something different.
 
M285:

Corner deceleration override: 350
Arc deceleration override: 350
Curve approximation deceleration override: 500

I only use it for resting and finishing. Not sure what changes versus M265.

Mode A works better for roughing. When Brother combined both systems into the new M298 setup (they call it "Quick Settings") being rolled out in V10, you find all the roughing codes are still in Mode A, and in my testing, Mode A is consistently faster and more accurate than B when doing gross stock removal.

Mode B is really all about accuracy, smoothness, and complex geometry (spline based contours made up of a lot of G01 moves, and 3D surfaces). It overthinks roughing.

Go into User Parameters, and set M265 up like this:

Corner Override: 500
Arc Override: 6000
Curve Override: 6000
Smooth Path Offset Level: 1
Smooth Override: 70
Minute Block Delete: 0.001

Go into machine parameters/high accuracy/common. I think this parameters position changes on different firmware, but you'll see a Mode A Maximum and Mode A Reference federates, set these both to 30000.

This basically replicates what the new M298 L2 Roughing strategy does, and it kicks lots of ass.
 
My company has almost 40 Brother Speedio machining centers. We bought our first one in 2015 and haven't looked back. We absolutely love them. We are cutting deep and fast. We have actually made a product for them that is a chip evacuation tool. Our are mostly 450's and 650's though.
 
My company has almost 40 Brother Speedio machining centers. We bought our first one in 2015 and haven't looked back. We absolutely love them. We are cutting deep and fast. We have actually made a product for them that is a chip evacuation tool. Our are mostly 450's and 650's though.
Fred. Buddy. Ya can't just drop a nugget like that and bounce. Spill the beans!

A couple jobs back we spent almost as much time shoveling our R650 out as machining. Steel + HSM - serrated roughers = not fun.
 
Couple thoughts ...
Thanks Mike, I have not seen an accuracy issues with the "smudgy" aspect yet, but it REALLY bothers me. All that nice brand new tooling. I have tooling older than me that has no marks from a chip being caught in the spindle. Of all the machines I have run, Sharp, Mazak, Doosan, Deckel, Hermle, I have never seen a machine with this issue THIS FAST. I have seen it in OLD machines with LOTS of use, especially with an umbrella tool changer.

What materials do you primarily run? I have had lots of good reports with Blaser, but everyone seems to be running aluminum. I run 99% steel, and that seems to limit my choices. I think the recent one they sent me was BC940? The smutty black stuff, does it smell terrible? This is what I get under any work surface that is clamped or hasn't moved in awhile. If you leave it long enough (3-4 days+) it will start to turn into brown sludge, longer than that and after you wipe away the sludge, underneath is pitted, almost acid etched. If I have time tomorrow I will include pictures.

wish I had a ‘dummies guide to speedios’.

High accuracy modes didn’t make any friggin sense to me

The machines also come with very similar settings now.

- I run Qualichem 250c

- I like the idea of the air assisted coolant tool wash on the dual contact machines. As I’m switching jobs now I am cleaning the tapers of all the tools that weren’t used in the previous job.

You are obviously several levels of dummy ahead of me :D I don't even understand HOW you guys find this stuff out? The new version L code bit.... I have NO clue what you are talking about?!

I typically run a light, fast, finish pass and then a skim or spring pass.

Qualichem is one of the coolants I originally looked at, and I think that in November when my warranty is up I will be switching.

@ Fal Grunt. No direct experience with Brother. But that has to be one of the best reviews I've ever read here.

Extremely literate, no "fan boy". Just bread & butter facts.

Well done Sir.

Regards Phil.

Thank you sir!

We have a couple of R650x1s here and our M28x codes are zeroed out. Anyone want to share their HA settings? I've had a couple of issues having too much deceleration with HA codes on and too much corner rounding with the codes off or with M265. These are all 2D cutout on injection molded plastic lids feeding fast 120-150 IPM(1/16 diameter or 1/8 endmills) with 90 degree corners (full tool radius). Resulting in cycle times slower....than our Haas DT1. GASP!

:eek: I have noticed when running, 265? I think? it gets REALLY slow, like 9ipm slow around corners, when programmed feed is around 40ipm. Looks like we can both learn a lot, and based on what is posted below, I am even more clueless than I realized!

M285:

Corner deceleration override: 350
Arc deceleration override: 350
Curve approximation deceleration override: 500

I only use it for resting and finishing. Not sure what changes versus M265.

Where do you find/figure/set these? I read what I thought was the whole manual and do not remember any of this?

I enjoyed the review also, thanks! :)

Thanks, I am definitely changing a few of my procedures as to how I clamp tooling down. I did actually get a chip brush from my Kearney & Trecker, which sits next to the Brother, to help clean the table off when need be. I certainly do not abuse my machines, but you could practically toss a wrench from across the room onto the Brown & Sharpe or Kearney & Trecker and NOT effect the table in anyway shape or form.

Couple thousandths between morning and evening Regards.Mike

This I have not experienced, but I think you mentioned running at 16k? I rarely make it above 12k, even with smaller drills. I *think* I can attribute this consistency to my in floor heat, which keeps the machines pretty constant temperature. That is why it throws me for an even bigger loop when I have the varying offsets.

That’s the thing with the new versions; you don’t need to know those M codes anymore.
Mode A was M26x codes. Mode B was M28x codes.

Now with the newer firmwares we can use M298 L1-5. L2 is roughing, L5 is finishing, 3&4 are between them. L1 I think is Standard. M299 or M30 cancels an M298 call. You can also choose which one of those settings you want to run in the background under Machine Parameters. I leave mine on Standard but depending on what you do maybe you want something different.

WHERE do you find this stuff?! When did they come out with new firmware? Where did you learn about this M298 L code? Waaaaaaaaa????!!!!! :crazy: I thought I had a pretty good idea how much I did not know, and NOW I find out I am even more clueless than I realized!

Mode A works better for roughing. When Brother combined both systems into the new M298 setup (they call it "Quick Settings") being rolled out in V10, you find all the roughing codes are still in Mode A, and in my testing, Mode A is consistently faster and more accurate than B when doing gross stock removal.

Mode B is really all about accuracy, smoothness, and complex geometry (spline based contours made up of a lot of G01 moves, and 3D surfaces). It overthinks roughing.

Go into User Parameters, and set M265 up like this:

Corner Override: 500
Arc Override: 6000
Curve Override: 6000
Smooth Path Offset Level: 1
Smooth Override: 70
Minute Block Delete: 0.001

Go into machine parameters/high accuracy/common. I think this parameters position changes on different firmware, but you'll see a Mode A Maximum and Mode A Reference federates, set these both to 30000.

This basically replicates what the new M298 L2 Roughing strategy does, and it kicks lots of ass.


Thanks, I will do this tomorrow, I am currently setup and running a part I can play with a few of the last pieces to see changes.

My company has almost 40 Brother Speedio machining centers. We bought our first one in 2015 and haven't looked back. We absolutely love them. We are cutting deep and fast. We have actually made a product for them that is a chip evacuation tool. Our are mostly 450's and 650's though.

I spent about half an hour this afternoon looking at your website. I almost called, I really wish you had pricing for your basic standard stuff. I also thought to myself, you need to update the website to show off all the Brothers... I would be much more impressed than all those pictures of Haas' :D

Thanks for the comment. I would love to get either a 450 or 650 someday, but I really do not do the production to warrant it. I was looking at some of your items to see if/how I could adapt them to small batch machining work. Most of my batches of work are less than 100 pieces, and am trying to come up with some better work holding to increase cycle times.

Great site by the way.
 
The HA stuff I thought I had all figured out before getting the machine installed. Then Oscar starts throwing this 'Yeah there's the M codes, but then there's the background setting, and then there's the L settings'... What the?? So I hit up Greg and he guided me through it a bit. So, super duper dummy's guide from a dummy...

- The M codes still function exactly as before
- I have V8.something and on my machine I can set the background setting (so I don't need an M-code to have HA on)
- I can use M298 Lx in a program, and it's easy for me to remember the L's than it is to remember full M26x or M28x codes.
 
Thanks Mike, I have not seen an accuracy issues with the "smudgy" aspect yet, but it REALLY bothers me. All that nice brand new tooling. I have tooling older than me that has no marks from a chip being caught in the spindle. Of all the machines I have run, Sharp, Mazak, Doosan, Deckel, Hermle, I have never seen a machine with this issue THIS FAST. I have seen it in OLD machines with LOTS of use, especially with an umbrella tool changer.

What materials do you primarily run? I have had lots of good reports with Blaser, but everyone seems to be running aluminum. I run 99% steel, and that seems to limit my choices. I think the recent one they sent me was BC940? The smutty black stuff, does it smell terrible? This is what I get under any work surface that is clamped or hasn't moved in awhile. If you leave it long enough (3-4 days+) it will start to turn into brown sludge, longer than that and after you wipe away the sludge, underneath is pitted, almost acid etched. If I have time tomorrow I will include pictures.

80% aluminum, 15% plastics, 5% steel.

I haven't noticed any funky smells, other than the smell of the coolant itself and of course the awful smell of acetal :ack2:.

Regards.

Mike
 
Growth:

Near the top one of you posted variations in (what I ass_u_me to be) Z location.

How doo you know that things moved .0007"?
What are you locating to in Z that is that precise?
Maybe just noting updates to the tool setter offsets/.register?

Shirley it is all tools?
So all tools should still be in ref to each other, even if the distance to the table changed .001?


Also - there was mention of the 16K spindle being the culprit to the growth issue, and if it is not a dual contact spindle/tools - I guess that very well could be the case.
But also is the case of the Z axis lead screw growing with all the movement.
I guess one of those issues would make the tools longer with heat, and the other make the tools shorter with heat.
So maybe they somewhat cancel each other out?




-------------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Nice to see some open feedback about brothers .. All in all they seem like good machine for light fast cutting and I do a lot of that but I have been slow to want to drink the Koolaid in that the closest dealer is 1,000 miles away. and well I keep reading about how great they are and there support is I know what it could cost to fly a repair guy in and pay for hotel/ car ETC to get a machine fixed …

Also Brothers has not came up with a good working chip plan for there machines yet … Well I am not a fan of Augers they pull a ton of chips out of my current mills every week and aside from cleaning out the coolant return screen there is ZERO maintenance done to them … I still wonder if there is a way to put a auger at the end of the return shoots on the brothers ?
 
Nice to see some open feedback about brothers .. All in all they seem like good machine for light fast cutting and I do a lot of that but I have been slow to want to drink the Koolaid in that the closest dealer is 1,000 miles away. and well I keep reading about how great they are and there support is I know what it could cost to fly a repair guy in and pay for hotel/ car ETC to get a machine fixed …

Probably the least relevant concern to buying a Speedio you could have.

1- These machines are designed for a level of reliability only about 20% of the customers in the US put on them. I probably know more Speedio owners in the US outside of a Yamazen employee. I can't recall a machine ever being down for any reason beyond a crash.

2- Yamazen has a tech up in our general vicinity 1-2 weeks a month for installs. Andy knows what he is doing, and this whole region is a massive Speedio market.

Also Brothers has not came up with a good working chip plan for there machines yet … Well I am not a fan of Augers they pull a ton of chips out of my current mills every week and aside from cleaning out the coolant return screen there is ZERO maintenance done to them … I still wonder if there is a way to put a auger at the end of the return shoots on the brothers ?

Don't get the 50L coolant tank (which I'm guessing you wouldn't anyhow). Rough with serrated/corncob tools to get rid of the long stringy chips. Do those two things, and you'll laugh about that time you though Brother hadn't come up with a working chip solution. This thing doesn't need an auger because it ejects chips out the shoot with proper cabinet design and big ass washdown flow.
 
^^^ Yamazen always seems to have someone around Portland area. The maintenance was also something that steered me towards the Speedios. Oscar had the same thing to say as Greg, they don't really break unless you physically smash them into something.

The 50L tank sucks... Well the 25gpm pump doesn't pair well with it LOL. I can go from above-full to below-empty on the gauge just turning the pump on... :)


Most machines come with 100 or 150L tanks.
 








 
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