Brother BII Accuracy Mode Settings - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Maybe jerky is the wrong term. I have it set to 20,000 per your pdf.
    The more accurate term would be that it seemed too loose and was banging when reversing direction during the air cuts.
    What is the linking output like? G1 only, or G2/G3?

    If you want to send me some code, I can run it and find out WTF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Maybe jerky is the wrong term. I have it set to 20,000 per your pdf.
    The more accurate term would be that it seemed too loose and was banging when reversing direction during the air cuts.
    This is on a pallet machine? Is the banging the way covers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    This is on a pallet machine? Is the banging the way covers?
    yes, the R450. It could be the way covers, but it sounded pretty harsh. At first I had the air feedrate at 1100ipm and I quickly changed that to 600ipm after it banged hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    What is the linking output like? G1 only, or G2/G3?

    If you want to send me some code, I can run it and find out WTF.
    I'll have to PM it to you, it seems there is a character limit on replies hah!

    EDIT--- Your inbox is full.

    The code is linear moves with a handful of arcs here and there for the inner corners.

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    Try it now!

    In the meantime, change that 8003 param to 30,000.

    In the Roughing parameters, you'll see a "Smoothing Override" figure. In Mode A, think of that number in terms of a race car driver versus a limousine driver when it comes to breaking and acceleration. The lower the number, the more the machine will slam on the brakes and mash the gas going into and out of corners, the higher the number and the smoother that acceleration will be. The actual speed around the corner will remain the same, but the 64% figure from the book will make the machine dive right in and zip right out of all direction changes.

    Where this gets complicated is that, when you set the number lower to be more aggressive, that percentage also effects the maximum feed rate we set in that 8003 parameter. When we go below 100%, Mode A clamps the maximum feed rate to the same percentage of the Smooth Override number. At 20,000 mm/min * 64% Smooth Override, you're effectively maxed out at 503ipm. My suspicion is that the herky jerky is the machine accelerating to that max feed and slamming on the brakes.

    Switch the 8003 parameter to 30,000 mm/min and your new maximum feed rate for L2 is now 755ipm. Try that and if it works, crank your linking moves up to 700.

    Edited to Add:
    Now I see this is an R450... Most of these parameters are really set up for an S700 or S500/300 (which are identical, and 10% faster). I think the above will still work because we aren't touching the really messy accel/decel setup parameters in the Common tab, those are very machine model specific. If the above doesn't work, we'll need to dig into it more, but the R series machines do give up some raw milling performance in favor of the whole QT table thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Try it now!

    In the meantime, change that 8003 param to 30,000.

    In the Roughing parameters, you'll see a "Smoothing Override" figure. In Mode A, think of that number in terms of a race car driver versus a limousine driver when it comes to breaking and acceleration. The lower the number, the more the machine will slam on the brakes and mash the gas going into and out of corners, the higher the number and the smoother that acceleration will be. The actual speed around the corner will remain the same, but the 64% figure from the book will make the machine dive right in and zip right out of all direction changes.

    Where this gets complicated is that, when you set the number lower to be more aggressive, that percentage also effects the maximum feed rate we set in that 8003 parameter. When we go below 100%, Mode A clamps the maximum feed rate to the same percentage of the Smooth Override number. At 20,000 mm/min * 64% Smooth Override, you're effectively maxed out at 503ipm. My suspicion is that the herky jerky is the machine accelerating to that max feed and slamming on the brakes.

    Switch the 8003 parameter to 30,000 mm/min and your new maximum feed rate for L2 is now 755ipm. Try that and if it works, crank your linking moves up to 700.

    Edited to Add:
    Now I see this is an R450... Most of these parameters are really set up for an S700 or S500/300 (which are identical, and 10% faster). I think the above will still work because we aren't touching the really messy accel/decel setup parameters in the Common tab, those are very machine model specific. If the above doesn't work, we'll need to dig into it more, but the R series machines do give up some raw milling performance in favor of the whole QT table thing.
    PM sent.
    I changed it from 20k to 30k and that made a bit of a difference. Now we're getting somewhere and you have restored my faith!

    Can you tell me when I would use and how, the L7,L8 and L9 versions of the M289? I didn't see any info on that.

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    You rule! So if I understand correctly, My machines shipped with the B modes being black...That doesn't matter, just input the PDF values and transition to the new M289 Lx codes. Is that correct? or do I still need to fill out the old blank B m28x parameters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    PM sent.
    I changed it from 20k to 30k and that made a bit of a difference. Now we're getting somewhere and you have restored my faith!

    Can you tell me when I would use and how, the L7,L8 and L9 versions of the M289? I didn't see any info on that.
    R series machines are nowhere near as rigid a S series machines and they can't accelerate as aggressively. In that Rough parameter setup page, I would increase the Smooth Override figure I mentioned earlier (the one that should be at 64%) and bump it up to 75%. You'll lose a little cycle time, but increasing that till everything smooths out will solve it for you.

    L7, L8, L9 are codes to use for a tolerance based accuracy mode the same way the older Mode A system worked. It is kept around as a legacy feature because a lot of Brother fleets are highly mixed with new and old machines, but they need to be able to run identical or nearly identical G-code. This is why the old M260/M280 codes will be with us for the next 10+ years. Basically, you tell the machine to hold the programmed path of say, .020" for L7 and .0005" for L9, and you would use them for roughing and finishing respectively. It is is a simpler system that is easy to set up, and is sorta similar to how Okuma, Fanuc, and Haas do their thing. It is nowhere near as efficient or powerful as what you can do in the L1-L6 codes though.

    The High Accuracy system is actually very good. It clearly isn't up there with Fanuc or Okuma, but it is lightyears better than Haas. The real issue is that the factory doesn't ship these machines set up at all. If Okuma sent you a new OSP-300 and all the driving parameters for Hi Cut were blank, you bet it would run like shit. It is bizarre that Brother does this, but I suspect the X2 machines will fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFrench View Post
    You rule! So if I understand correctly, My machines shipped with the B modes being black...That doesn't matter, just input the PDF values and transition to the new M289 Lx codes. Is that correct? or do I still need to fill out the old blank B m28x parameters.
    Just fill input the PDF values and run with the M298 L codes, you'll be good to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    R series machines are nowhere near as rigid a S series machines
    I beg to differ on this point. I have done and seen all kind of crazy cuts on Brother machines. I never come up to a pallet change R series machine and think 'oh I need to back things off'. A good client of ours that machines alloy steels all day on his Brother machines, just got his first R450 High Torque. He is running the same programs on it as his S700 and S1000 High Torque machines. Mainly High Speed type tool paths. Only difference is he almost doubled his daily production with it! Accel/Decel a little different on R versus S but is always the same regardless of how heavy the part and tooling on the table are, which is nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    I beg to differ on this point. I have done and seen all kind of crazy cuts on Brother machines. I never come up to a pallet change R series machine and think 'oh I need to back things off'. A good client of ours that machines alloy steels all day on his Brother machines, just got his first R450 High Torque. He is running the same programs on it as his S700 and S1000 High Torque machines. Mainly High Speed type tool paths. Only difference is he almost doubled his daily production with it! Accel/Decel a little different on R versus S but is always the same regardless of how heavy the part and tooling on the table are, which is nice.
    Fair, I don't know why I typed rigidity when I meant something else related to acceleration. I've never set up a job for an R machine, but I've helped enough folks do their high accuracy tuning to know they absolutely don't move the way an S does.

    Having said that, I am betting when Mr Dew steps the Roughing up from 64% to 75%, his machine will run just fine.

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    I'll change that in a couple of hours and let you know.
    Thanks again.

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    Changed it to 75, and there was a little difference, barely noticeable. But it's better than what I've been using on this thing for the past couple of years.

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    Heard back from Brother and they referred me back to Yamazen. Yamazen gave me the option of updating to V10 at no charge and sent me the files via email. That ought to get me the updated B accuracy mode however I'm stuck with which files to use for the firmware update.

    The supplied instructions said only 2 files should be on the USB drive used to update the machine, init_param and verupimage. However I was sent four different version of the latter - verupimage, verupimage01, verupimageA and verupimageA01. The first and third are same file size as shown in the instructions, second and fourth are larger files.

    No one at Yamazen can tell me what is up with the four variations including the fellow who sent these to me. Has anyone here updated their Brother firmware themselves and could tell me which one of the four verupimage files I actually need to use? Already made a full backup of current parameters.


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